any rap fans???

[JKiss]

i here all about greenday and propagandi and all this emo stuff im not dissing it but im wondering if their is any rap fans

i like:
dem franchize boys
g unit
young jock

wut do u like

[Snarr]

Prepare to get flamed, in...

3...2...1...

[RocketSoldier]

*barf* You like rap?

Blarg..bl..*barf*

No more needs to be said.

[JKiss]

well not all rap i just like some lol
not that im crazy and i onl listen to it i listen to everything
good emo is my halo music it makes me play better how bout that

[DeathIncarnated]

Long Version: My personal view is that rap, especially those "songs" by 50 Cent is a representation of the decline of Western Civilization. A song by a rapper who doesn't have the balls to just stand up and say the message of the song is "Suck my ****, which I will refer to in this song as a lollipop" is not a song. Also, 50 Cent contributed other such classics to society as a song about cocaine. I bet his mother is proud.

Now, listen to Avenged Sevenfold or System of a Down or one of a plethera of other metal bands who do not incorporate such things into their songs for monetary profit. And just out of curiousity, how stoned do you have to be to think glorified braces are cool?

Short Version: No.

[Kevim]

Long Version: My personal view is that rap, especially those "songs" by 50 Cent is a representation of the decline of Western Civilization. A song by a rapper who doesn't have the balls to just stand up and say the message of the song is "Suck my ****, which I will refer to in this song as a lollipop" is not a song. Also, 50 Cent contributed other such classics to society as a song about cocaine. I bet his mother is proud.

Now, listen to Avenged Sevenfold or System of a Down or one of a plethera of other metal bands who do not incorporate such things into their songs for monetary profit. And just out of curiousity, how stoned do you have to be to think glorified braces are cool?

Short Version: No.

1. 50 Cent is the exception, not the rule. 50 Cent does not show what rap is and what rap can be. But geuss who had to be the 95-year-old Republican and single out one man who raps about what most would say is unmeaningful.

2. The song's you hear on MTV or any other popular music source is not really meant for listening to. And that is not just Rap, that is all forms of music. And I guarentee by your additude about Rap, you've not taken the time to look at and listen to some of the songs I'm going to post here.

3. Those song's you singled out aren't meant for listening to. They are meant for clubbing/dancing to. Something that Rock will/can never do as good as Rap.

4. Many-a-rock song talk about the same things rap-haters complain about being in Rap songs too often. Ever heard of "Great balls of fire" or "Cocaine Blues"? And yes, I know those are exceptions as well, not the rule.

5. I think glorified braces are cool as hell. I just hate when kids put tinfoil in their mouth.

Meaningful rap songs you would like:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rPET7oJhgu0&search=Hailies%20song (I hate the video for this one though)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wbRmlveWj7c&search=Tupac
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZY2p7oE7Bpw&search=Eminem%20stan
http://youtube.com/watch?v=U7Hp1ihFdqg&search=Eminem (Lots of Eminem, I know.)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nMn2cCBwH18&mode=related&search=Nas

[Kirin_Ken]

50 cent had been critisised by many since people claims that 50 cent do not have any reason to cuss (they need a reason?!) Anyway I like hip hop but mainly Eminem and Black Eyed Peas.

[caniverous toilet]

Too be honest, not a lot of people like rap in this forum. Well, they might do, because I'm just dumb. And Snarr was right, you did get flamed in 3...2...1.... :)

[Kirin_Ken]

Well, people should be more open-minded to discussions like this even if they may not necessary that they like the genre of music.

[ssgtGrimreaper]

All of you need to read this thread: http://forums.xgenstudios.com/showthread.php?t=33892
Understand both sides of each argument. Pay attention to Chronic and Kevim. They know what they're talkin' bout.

[Kevim]

All of you need to read this thread: http://forums.xgenstudios.com/showthread.php?t=33892
Understand both sides of each argument. Pay attention to Chronic and Kevim. They know what they're talkin' bout.

...I didn't even post in that one (Besides the trip-hop question.). Anyways, if any of you guys want to see what this thread is going to turn in to,... http://forums.xgenstudios.com/showthread.php?t=26740&highlight=Rap

And I don't want that to happen again. Just read it.

[mike98765432]

No, no rap fans.

[Rejean Laprise]

the only rap i listen to is EMIN3M.

[mike98765432]

No, no you don't. :p

[ssgtGrimreaper]

...I didn't even post in that one (Besides the trip-hop question.). Anyways, if any of you guys want to see what this thread is going to turn in to,... http://forums.xgenstudios.com/showthread.php?t=26740&highlight=Rap

And I don't want that to happen again. Just read it.
Oh, that's the thread I was thinking of.
Well, both of them.

[gunsniperz]

I like rap, but then again, I like all kinds of music except for country and that screamo stuff.

[DeathIncarnated]

I'm not saying all rap is bad, just the rappers who think they're "gangsta." You can't glorify grown men shooting each other over drug money and hos, and if you can, George W. Bush is looking for somebody like you to put a postive spin on his two terms as president.

The original rappers weren't as bad as rappers now. I don't listen to any Eminem for a few reasons. I just can't stand people who act like somebody they aren't just because they think that person is cool.

I'll post some links to some music videos I say are good, and then let's compare them.

http://www.avengedsevenfold.com/main.html Seize The Day
http://www.systemofadown.com/ From the main page click media and watch the videos for Hypnotize and Question, two of my favorites.

And that's all for now because I'm bored, but there will be more.

[.twotoedsleuth.]

Ugh...rap. Sorry, but mostly everyone here hates rap a lot...

I don't think it should be considered music. I mean, it's a guy basically talking quickly, not changing his pitch or tone, with some repetitive beat going on in the background.

[Ninja.Hack3r]

rap is crap, its just talking in rythem. I HATE IT!!!

srry for the caps, got carried away lol

[Screech]

I don't think it should be considered music. I mean, it's a guy basically talking quickly, not changing his pitch or tone, with some repetitive beat going on in the background.

Tell me what music is, then you have all rights to tell me what music is not.

And I am not asking you what music is TO YOU, but what it is as an ENTIRE WHOLE. What is the true definition of music?

Now, I decided to go online and find out what music is.

a : the science or art of ordering tones or sounds in succession, in combination, and in temporal relationships to produce a composition having unity and continuity b : vocal, instrumental, or mechanical sounds having rhythm, melody, or harmony

Now, lets compare this definition to rap music:

There is a definite order in rap music. The sounds as well are ordered. There is a definite beat. The composition of a rap song as a whole is not entirely random- it makes sense to the mind. Rap music is very rhythmic. Melody, being sounds pleasing to the ear, is SUBJECTIVE. As long as someone finds it pleasing, it has a melody.

Ok, according to the raw dictionary definition of music, Rap certainly does count of music.

Ugh...rap. Sorry, but mostly everyone here hates rap a lot...

Just because a small target group of fifty or so 12-21 year old boys, mostly Caucasian, think that rap is a bad form of music, doesn't mean it is. It also does not mean that rap is not considered music and cannot be discussed in the music forums! If you do not like it, be polite. Although JKiss did not really discuss the matter in the most intelligent manner, it is a reflection of his intelligence and writing skills, not a reflection on rap music culture.

Although you might not like rap, learn about its importance before you dismiss it. Rap culture had a huge positive influence on African American culture. As any form of music does to a people, it becomes a symbol. It becomes an importance. Emo music is relating to teens of today, and a symbol of what these people are. Thus, it is important in today’s youth. In the sixties, Rock and Roll represented rebellion, independence and love for one another. It became big, and it became meaningful. It related with and represented the people and the youth. In the seventies, with disco and commercialism sweeping the nation, punk music came as a counter to it. It became a band aid to hate the disco culture as a whole, a band aid to burn disco records and go on about how it isn't really music. Yes punks, Disco is still real, just like Punk is a real form of music (although some would argue about the commercialism of punk music, but I'll address that point afterwards.).

Here is a good article about rap music: http://www.nbufront.org/html/fvwin98/errol1.html

One thing that is challenged is the commercialism of rap music. (Just mainstream rap music is analyzed by the majority. There’s a tone of indie Rappers and hip-hop artists. We just don't see them- They don't sell the records ;)) But this is an entirely unfair label across rap music as a whole. Every genre of music has had its corruption by the public media. Rock music used to be peace and love. It turned into Kiss. Country used to be about a man (or a woman ;)) and his guitar. Now it is about Shania Twain and Tim McGraw. Commercialism ruins music culture. Lets just face it. They take something raw and pure, chop it up, mash it, step on it a bit, chew it up, and add some ####. Then, they package it up and feed it back to us! Its not just rap that does this. They are just very honest about it.

My personal opinion:

I like rap. Not all of it, but quite a bit. I like music from most genres. I cannot define what I am and what I like from a single genre. It took me YEARS to discover this. To me, confining myself to one genre is as completely stupid as only talking to one race of people.

I don't like bad music. That’s about it.

What do I not like? IGNORANCE and IDIOCY. Before you chose not to like something, LEARN ABOUT IT. Don't judge before you know.

[DeathIncarnated]

Tell me what music is, then you have all rights to tell me what music is not.

And I am not asking you what music is TO YOU, but what it is as an ENTIRE WHOLE. What is the true definition of music?

Now, I decided to go online and find out what music is.



Now, lets compare this definition to rap music:

There is a definite order in rap music. The sounds as well are ordered. There is a definite beat. The composition of a rap song as a whole is not entirely random- it makes sense to the mind. Rap music is very rhythmic. Melody, being sounds pleasing to the ear, is SUBJECTIVE. As long as someone finds it pleasing, it has a melody.

Ok, according to the raw dictionary definition of music, Rap certainly does count of music.



Just because a small target group of fifty or so 12-21 year old boys, mostly Caucasian, think that rap is a bad form of music, doesn't mean it is. It also does not mean that rap is not considered music and cannot be discussed in the music forums! If you do not like it, be polite. Although JKiss did not really discuss the matter in the most intelligent manner, it is a reflection of his intelligence and writing skills, not a reflection on rap music culture.

Although you might not like rap, learn about its importance before you dismiss it. Rap culture had a huge positive influence on African American culture. As any form of music does to a people, it becomes a symbol. It becomes an importance. Emo music is relating to teens of today, and a symbol of what these people are. Thus, it is important in today’s youth. In the sixties, Rock and Roll represented rebellion, independence and love for one another. It became big, and it became meaningful. It related with and represented the people and the youth. In the seventies, with disco and commercialism sweeping the nation, punk music came as a counter to it. It became a band aid to hate the disco culture as a whole, a band aid to burn disco records and go on about how it isn't really music. Yes punks, Disco is still real, just like Punk is a real form of music (although some would argue about the commercialism of punk music, but I'll address that point afterwards.).

Here is a good article about rap music: http://www.nbufront.org/html/fvwin98/errol1.html

One thing that is challenged is the commercialism of rap music. (Just mainstream rap music is analyzed by the majority. There’s a tone of indie Rappers and hip-hop artists. We just don't see them- They don't sell the records ;)) But this is an entirely unfair label across rap music as a whole. Every genre of music has had its corruption by the public media. Rock music used to be peace and love. It turned into Kiss. Country used to be about a man (or a woman ;)) and his guitar. Now it is about Shania Twain and Tim McGraw. Commercialism ruins music culture. Lets just face it. They take something raw and pure, chop it up, mash it, step on it a bit, chew it up, and add some ####. Then, they package it up and feed it back to us! Its not just rap that does this. They are just very honest about it.

My personal opinion:

I like rap. Not all of it, but quite a bit. I like music from most genres. I cannot define what I am and what I like from a single genre. It took me YEARS to discover this. To me, confining myself to one genre is as completely stupid as only talking to one race of people.

I don't like bad music. That’s about it.

What do I not like? IGNORANCE and IDIOCY. Before you chose not to like something, LEARN ABOUT IT. Don't judge before you know.

How, with all due respect, the hell can you say Kiss is in relation to decline? Don't rip on Kiss. Kiss is badass. Now, with regards to what I bolded, I don't like bad music either, which is why I don't like rap. My oppinion is the general consensus among just about everyone who likes metal and hard rock.

A very good friend of mine, when I was talking with him one day, said "You probably won't believe me, but I actually used to like rap." At this point, I felt like I had been slapped in the face. I managed to ask him what made him change his mind about music, and his response was "I listened to Slipknot, took a good look in the mirror, and realized how much of a jackass I was for thinking I was 'gangster'."

[mindless man]

mindless seld indulegence http://www.myspace.com/mindlessSelfIndulgence (http://www.myspace.com/mindlessSelfIndulgence)

[ripht|CoC]

How, with all due respect, the hell can you say Kiss is in relation to decline? Don't rip on Kiss. Kiss is badass. Now, with regards to what I bolded, I don't like bad music either, which is why I don't like rap. My oppinion is the general consensus among just about everyone who likes metal and hard rock.

A very good friend of mine, when I was talking with him one day, said "You probably won't believe me, but I actually used to like rap." At this point, I felt like I had been slapped in the face. I managed to ask him what made him change his mind about music, and his response was "I listened to Slipknot, took a good look in the mirror, and realized how much of a jackass I was for thinking I was 'gangster'."

Your lack of intelligence is wholly uninspiring. Slipknot and Kiss are soulless CORPORATE trash, and you have terrible taste in music. :) Please go find a soul and stop being a tool of the machine.

[Woolfenstien]

Slipknot's first album was good before they sold out.
Never bothered to listen to kiss though.

[Screech]

How, with all due respect, the hell can you say Kiss is in relation to decline? Don't rip on Kiss. Kiss is badass. Now, with regards to what I bolded, I don't like bad music either, which is why I don't like rap. My oppinion is the general consensus among just about everyone who likes metal and hard rock.

A very good friend of mine, when I was talking with him one day, said "You probably won't believe me, but I actually used to like rap." At this point, I felt like I had been slapped in the face. I managed to ask him what made him change his mind about music, and his response was "I listened to Slipknot, took a good look in the mirror, and realized how much of a jackass I was for thinking I was 'gangster'."

Kiss was an example of commercialism in rock music. I'm not saying they are good or bad per say, that is a matter of opinion. (I think they have great party music, personally. I don't hate them at all.) But they are about selling themselves, not ideas. Their music is giving people what they want in order to sell a product- themselves. Kiss is a buisness. Thats why you have more Kiss merchandise than any other band in history.

How does a buissness sell itself? Well, one is to form an oposition, and enemy. For example, Mac has alot of diehard fans. They all hate PCs. Why? PC is the enemy because they are loyal to their product. As I mentioned before, the rock and punk music of the seventies hated Disco. That was the enemy. And now, that music is hated by the loyal listeners of the music industry. A band-aid. A marketing ploy. You hating other forms of music and thinking what you listen to is the best is just proof that you have been branded and sold like a product.

Slipknot is another image corperate ##### band. Not saying that they have bad music (And unlike my opinion on Kiss, I do not like Slipknot at all.)

But, I'm going to use Wikipedia to prove my final point of your ignorance:

There is a deadlock as to where Slipknot's music fits.

Those who consider Slipknot to be nu-metal argue that the lyrical themes and instrumental styles of Slipknot (most notably the rarity of guitar solos), the use of the turntable and the use of three drummers. On the other hand, those who do not consider Slipknot's music to be nu-metal note that most of their music does not have a rap-based lyrical structure (although the influence of rap is evident in most of their music).

[DeathIncarnated]

Alright, CoC, take a look in the mirror. Have you even listened to Slipknot? Have you been to one of their concerts? Do you know the subject material of many of their songs is telling their record label to #### off? Didn't think so. Are you going to give me one of those lectures stoned hippies give people about how the corporations are out to rule the world, then critisize my intelect? All I can say to that is I am mildly amused and not at all impressed. This arguement will accomplish nothing since you have not the intelligence or dignity to admit when you're beaten. I bite my thumb at you thusly, good sir.

And I will never understand how you can dislike a band because they became successful.

I can't say I'd expect to see you anywhere near a Slipknot concert, you're probably the type that cowers away as far from the mosh pit as you possibly can. In conclusion, shut up. And with that, I'm off!

Also, I believe some of you misunderstood my stance on rap. I don't think it's all bad, just the stuff like Kanye West and people like him who compare themselves to Jesus.

And Screech, I know Slipknot's music was influenced by rap, but they aren't rappers, are they?

[Screech]

"I hate my record lable, but I LOVE my money."

I'm not going to rant on, I'm just going to say a couple things:

1-You are what you hate.
2-Stupidity and Ignorance are two different things. Ignorance is not knowing better. Stupidity is chosing to be ignorant, or knowing better and refusing to change your patterns.

[DarkReality]

I don't like bad music either, which is why I don't like rap

You SO failed to understand Screech's post. You cannot begin to imagine how much you failed to understand her post.

A very good friend of mine, when I was talking with him one day, said "You probably won't believe me, but I actually used to like rap." At this point, I felt like I had been slapped in the face. I managed to ask him what made him change his mind about music, and his response was "I listened to Slipknot, took a good look in the mirror, and realized how much of a jackass I was for thinking I was 'gangster'."

Ah, I see. You're one of those diehard anti-rap fanatics who considers the very idea of liking "rap" to be blasphemy.

I don't listen to any Eminem for a few reasons. I just can't stand people who act like somebody they aren't just because they think that person is cool.

Yea, Eminem really pretends to be someone he isn't. He's really attempting to be black. Half of his songs AREN'T about him being different. Nooooo way. And seeing how you know him personally, your judgement is obviously absolute.

I don't think it should be considered music. I mean, it's a guy basically talking quickly, not changing his pitch or tone, with some repetitive beat going on in the background.

Soooo... african drum chants aren't music either? Fender invented music with the advent of the electric guitar? Or maybe it was europeans? Pff. Go learn something.

All I can say to that is I am mildly amused and not at all impressed. This arguement will accomplish nothing since you have not the intelligence or dignity to admit when you're beaten. I bite my thumb at you thusly, good sir.

... I'm at a loss of words. YOU'RE the one being practically owned here with your narrow-minded idea of what "music" is... And what the hell does telling your record label to #### off have to do with not being a corporate money-devouring #####? The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

[ripht|CoC]

Alright, CoC, take a look in the mirror. Have you even listened to Slipknot?

Yes, I have. I probably listened to them before you did. I used to be very into ####ty music.

Have you been to one of their concerts?

Yes, I have. I saw them during the Pledge of Allegiance tour. They did a bunch of flashy stuff and sounded like crap. Then System (a band with integrity :o The horror!) came on and blew the roof off.

Do you know the subject material of many of their songs is telling their record label to #### off?

...and? That's like shooting someone in the face using a bullet with a peace symbol engraved on it and calling yourself a pacifist. You're arguing that they're good because they're hypocrites? I really fail to see how that makes them talented.

Didn't think so.

Mm. Yeah. You totally pwned me. xD Hush, child. Just hush.



Are you going to give me one of those lectures stoned hippies give people about how the corporations are out to rule the world, then critisize my intelect?

No, I'm try to tell you that when a musicians chief interest is to make money, they have no soul. They have no passion. Slipknot's express purpose is to make money. I prefer musicians who are actually out to make music! What a novel concept!


And I will never understand how you can dislike a band because they became successful.

I don't hate Slipknot because they're popular. I hate Slipknot because their lyrics are crap. Their lyrics are utterly crap.


I can't say I'd expect to see you anywhere near a Slipknot concert, you're probably the type that cowers away as far from the mosh pit as you possibly can. In conclusion, shut up.

Man... -shakes head slowly-
I've moshed with Slayer; I've moshed with local bands and national bands. I've started moshing at school in the middle of class. You are entirely clueless. You think you're hardcore? You're a pansy.

Also, I believe some of you misunderstood my stance on rap. I don't think it's all bad, just the stuff like Kanye West and people like him who compare themselves to Jesus.

I didn't misunderstand it. That's not what you said. You just completely changed your stance. There's a subtle difference. ;)

And Screech, I know Slipknot's music was influenced by rap, but they aren't rappers, are they?

-_-
I'm done talking to you. I'd worry about you breeding, but I get the feeling you're going to choke to death on a milkshake long before that ever becomes an issue.



Seriously, man, you're only making a fool of yourself here. You have bad taste in music. Accepting that fact is the first step toward recovery.

[JKiss]

i dont think this is about rap anymore i was just wondering idf people in this forum liked rap not if they hated it
so for people who do hate ust dont post at all

and emo is no better than rap emo is just about people whining about government their life or someother usless junk

[Kevim]

Man... -shakes head slowly-
I've moshed with Slayer; I've moshed with local bands and national bands. I've started moshing at school in the middle of class. You are entirely clueless. You think you're hardcore? You're a pansy.

...Wow. That was amazing. I didn't think you had the hypocrite in you, honestly. I'm so proud of you, it reminds me that even the smartest men can be complete idiots at times.

Seriously, man, you're only making a fool of yourself here. You have bad taste in music. Accepting that fact is the first step toward recovery.

How in the living hell do you have the right to say he has bad taste in music? If anything, he should be saying you are the one with the bad taste of music, considering how many people love Slipknot and how many people dislike/never heard of the bands you speak of. You have no right to tell him he has bad taste in music or anybody. T

hat is the same **** right there that your Screech was talking about earlier. Just because somebody doesn't like rap, doesn't mean it is bad, and just because you don't like Slipknot doesn't mean it is bad.


and emo is no better than rap emo is just about people whining about government their life or someother usless junk

Yes, because talking and singing about the government is soo pointless. The goverment is such a small portion of our lives! It is not like they decide what and what not we are allowed to do or anything!

p.s. Punk is the kind of rock that normally complains about the government, not Emo.

[ripht|CoC]

How in the living hell do you have the right to say he has bad taste in music?

...because he does. That's rather simple, isn't it?

If anything, he should be saying you are the one with the bad taste of music, considering how many people love Slipknot and how many people dislike/never heard of the bands you speak of.

-chuckles-
The majority of humanity is dumb. This is fact, not speculation. Simple knowledge of bell curve statistics proves this. In fact, this is veritable proof that art that is appreciated by the majority of people is going to be the mediocre art of any society. Our society is a prime example of this.

It's starting to be widely recognized that nerd culture is the more advanced culture. Nerds make your cell phone, computer, car, microwave, central air, and every other modern convenience in your life possible. Respect the nerd.

Art appreciated by the smaller but more intelligent nerd subculture is at the head of the bell curve. What I'm saying is, popularity does NOT affect quality. You need to squeegee your third eye and look at things a little more clearly.



You have no right to tell him he has bad taste in music or anybody.

-shrugs-
Whether or not I "have the right" is irrelevant. He does. I just plant the seeds of discontent, hoping they'll grow and take root. Never be satisfied with mediocre art. Ever. That is my message to you, good sir.


That is the same **** right there that your Screech was talking about earlier.

Erm... No. Judging an entire undefined genre regardless of quality of individual art is NOT the same thing as judging a defined specific set of artwork based on observed quality.

Whether or not Screech agrees with me, it is not by any means what she was talking about before. Hush.


Just because somebody doesn't like rap, doesn't mean it is bad, and just because you don't like Slipknot doesn't mean it is bad.

I never said that Slipknot sucks because I don't like them. I'm saying I don't like them because they suck. Those are two different things. Pay attention.

[fruitycaker1]

There is basically no such thing as rap nowadays. All it is is a few notes played over and over again, with mediocre lyrics. It's boring and annoying.

Now, that being said, I do like some rap, but only actual rap. Back in the 80's and 90's, they had actual rap. I like some of that rap, but not the poser rap that they have today.

[Screech]

Most forms of music complain about the goverment. From blues to punk, from country to metal. Sometimes its legit, some times it is packaged BS. (And I am not dissing Sid Vicious, hes one of the hottest men that ever lived, and I used to be a HUGE sex pistols fan) But Sid vicious couldn't even play bass- they had to teach him the powerchords and they had someone behind stage that would play for him at times. Why? He perfectly fit the anti- goverment anti-establishment role that the Sex Pistoles were.

Packaged. For us.

As well, just because everyone likes it, doesn't mean its good, concerning everything from lyrical value, personal liking, talent and composition.

We get programed. Have you ever heard a metal song and thought it was very powerfull? All that loud music? The screaming? Well, in classical and jazz music, intensity was made by space in music and even near silence made a song emotionally powerfull. Seriously, anyone can learn to play power chords, strum them, and call it music. And because that is what modern music became, that's what we consider intense. Is it? No. Most music today is utter crap if you look at the rules of classical music.

Meh, its cheap to make and cheap to sell.

All I'm trying to say to you all is, well, most music today is crap. Not because I think so, but following the rules of music. I am not a musician, so I am not totally familiar with the rules word by word, so don't bug me about it. Also, just BE AWARE WHAT YOU BUY INTO. This whole "My music is better than yours" BS about slipknot is what it is. PURE BS. Who cares? Stop buying into it.

And I do think Ripht can be a bit Judgemental when it comes to music. Mind you, he;s a bit judgemental when it comes to everything :P But he was right, I was talking about the genres and judging music by genre, not by individual band.

You can like or hate anything you want. Just know what you like. Know what you hate. Stop being ignorant.


I really need to stop the whole Ranting thing. It's a bad habit.

[zecantu]

i here all about greenday and propagandi and all this emo stuff im not dissing it but im wondering if their is any rap fans

i like:
dem franchize boys
g unit
young jock

wut do u like


Dem Franchise Boyz are more hip-hop than rap really.

[Kevim]

Dem Franchise Boyz are more hip-hop than rap really.

Gah. Who cares? Honestly, I've gotten into a few arguements about this, and I have to say that they were some of the most pointless arguements I have ever gotten in to. And I have gotten into a lot of pointless arguements. Like this one I'm about to have with Ripht, as usually, he has pretty much proven my main points wrong, and also as usual, he has made me wish I didn't say something I did. Yet, I am still going to try to argue with the irrelevent things he said so I can attempt to regain a bit of self-dignity from myself. And as always add a touch of sarcastic humor.


-chuckles-
The majority of humanity is dumb. This is fact, not speculation. Simple knowledge of bell curve statistics proves this. In fact, this is veritable proof that art that is appreciated by the majority of people is going to be the mediocre art of any society. Our society is a prime example of this.

It's starting to be widely recognized that nerd culture is the more advanced culture. Nerds make your cell phone, computer, car, microwave, central air, and every other modern convenience in your life possible. Respect the nerd.

Art appreciated by the smaller but more intelligent nerd subculture is at the head of the bell curve. What I'm saying is, popularity does NOT affect quality. You need to squeegee your third eye and look at things a little more clearly..

...Ah! It is all clear to me now! Thank you Ripht! Now I know the truth! All Slipknot fans are dumb, while you are intelligent! That makes perfect sense! Because only a stupid person would listen to Slipknot, wouldn't they? It has nothing to do with personal tase--oh no-- it is just about how intelligent you are! And of course you being the genius you are, you hate Slipknot, and like the right music!

...Anyways, to get out of sarcasm for a bit, I'm not saying popularity affects quality, I'm saying quality effects popularity. Those are two different things. Pay attention. What I am trying to get through, is why does music get popular if it is not good? Of course there is marketing, but even then, marketing can't get you everything. ...Also, who cares if someone is smarter then another, better yet, why is that even relevent?

Just because someone is smarter then someone else, doesn't mean his opinions are any greater. Escpecially when it comes to situations such as these. Some of the dumbest people I know dislike Slipknot and the other bands you most likely frown upon. And some of the smartest people I know "Dumb people's music" as you would call it.


Whether or not I "have the right" is irrelevant. He does. I just plant the seeds of discontent, hoping they'll grow and take root. Never be satisfied with mediocre art. Ever. That is my message to you, good sir.

I like my music how I like my women, liked. I don't give a **** if anybody calls it mediocre or not (Except Roger Ebert, of course) if I like it, I like it. Screw everybody's opinon besides Roger Ebert's.

[mike98765432]

Rap today sucks. All it is is a one or two measure drum beat repeated over an dover again for three minutes while some guy talks really fast. Because of mainstream rap, I have never ventured into "old school rap," or whatever it's called. Everyone around me are mainstreamists, as I like to call them. All they listen to is whatever MTV plays, and they think its good. I hate that. And I know that that might sound hypocritical and all, because I am an avid Green Day fan, but they hate MTV, and are very public about hating it. I hate MTV.

[JKiss]

listen to ridin rims by dem franchize boys thats no hip hop thats rap

[███]

Rap used to be good back in the early 90's before it was sold out. Nowadays, all rappers do is brag about how much bling and booty they got, and it's really lame.

[sgtkilla]

Eminem is more hip hop. DFB's dont sound like Eminem at all. They be rap.

50 cent
Eminem
Dem Franchize Boys
Yound Dro
P. Diddy
G-Unit
T.I.
2pac
Chamillionaire
Chingy
DMX
Lil Jon
Obie Trice
Proof
Snoop Dogg
Three Six Mafia
Trick Trick
TPain
Twista

Basically all the major artists with a few lower class ones.

[Woolfenstien]

Eminem isn't rap but he's rap?
ehwtf

[Eon26]

Well, i dont think rap qualifies as music unless it has a chorus in it.

[DarkReality]

We get programed. Have you ever heard a metal song and thought it was very powerfull? All that loud music? The screaming? Well, in classical and jazz music, intensity was made by space in music and even near silence made a song emotionally powerfull. Seriously, anyone can learn to play power chords, strum them, and call it music. And because that is what modern music became, that's what we consider intense. Is it? No. Most music today is utter crap if you look at the rules of classical music.

Music is a dynamic process. Saying something isn't good because it's not as technically complicated as a Verdi Opera isn't really doing music justice. It's implying that music HAS to follow certain rules, whereas it simply has to move you, it has to have rhythm. A series of chords and the different impressions they leave behind can be just as musically inspiring as jazz elements.

Although given, some bands just take it to a minimalistic extreme. But then again, minimalism is also an appreciated visual arts form. So why not in music as well? It's just a matter of time before complicated musical theory will dominate the market again, once the things powerchords can do have been exhausted. It might even an entirely new musical concept, we might never see any elements of Beethoven's Fifth ever again :-)

...Anyways, to get out of sarcasm for a bit, I'm not saying popularity affects quality, I'm saying quality effects popularity. Those are two different things. Pay attention. What I am trying to get through, is why does music get popular if it is not good?

Because the majority of people fail to realize that most music is simply redigested crap with a new title and new lyrics (if even that!). Ripht answered exactly the question you stated after tearing apart his answer.

I like my music how I like my women, liked. I don't give a **** if anybody calls it mediocre or not (Except Roger Ebert, of course) if I like it, I like it. Screw everybody's opinon besides Roger Ebert's.

Yea. Women and music are only good if others gawk at them. Who needs personal taste as long as everyone wants to #### my girlfriend!

[ripht|CoC]

...Ah! It is all clear to me now! Thank you Ripht! Now I know the truth! All Slipknot fans are dumb, while you are intelligent! That makes perfect sense! Because only a stupid person would listen to Slipknot, wouldn't they? It has nothing to do with personal tase--oh no-- it is just about how intelligent you are! And of course you being the genius you are, you hate Slipknot, and like the right music!

Meet the man that made me
Greet the can that I came from
Oh the ####ing sacred heart of Jesus
Blew it in the back room
Feelin' like a real goon
Slam the #### aside, man
I'm on - you're not

I am the great big mouth

Good riddance - though I'm sad to say
I didn't get to kill you
Rhetoric - Better look both ways
I gotta get an arm through
Stain
What the #### is up? Get the #### away
Run if you want to
Innocent? You're a guilty conscience
Laugh last - break through
Stain

Prepare you ####er

I don't give a ####, #####
I don't give a ####, #####
I don't understand, #####
You don't matter
I don't give a ####, man
I don't give a ####, man
I don't really care, man
I'm the super sized man



Come on, man. My anus could write better lyrics than that on crack. And it's hard to clench the pen 'twixt my cheeks.


Seriously. Take a deep breath, take a second look, and just admit it: Their music is ####. Just admit it! You'll feel a lot better. I promise.


...Anyways, to get out of sarcasm for a bit, I'm not saying popularity affects quality, I'm saying quality effects popularity.

Yeah. It does. In today's market, it effects it negatively. An interesting artist is also a risky artist. Labels don't like taking risks, and -- since humans are more than willing to settle for crap artists -- the labels don't have to.


What I am trying to get through, is why does music get popular if it is not good?

Because it gets picked up by a major label and presented to the masses on a silver platter. People don't like taking the time to think, and they certainly don't like effort, so they accept what they're given and smile happily. Usually they drool on themselves a bit as well, in my experience.

-shrugs-
That's the masses for you.

Of course there is marketing, but even then, marketing can't get you everything.

Britney Spears.

...Also, who cares if someone is smarter then another, better yet, why is that even relevent?

Because intelligent lyrics are a huge part of music. Most of our society has forgotten that, but it's true. Witty well-written lyrics are an important part of quality music.

(Assuming, obviously, that we're talking about music that has any lyrics at all.)


Just because someone is smarter then someone else, doesn't mean his opinions are any greater. Escpecially when it comes to situations such as these. Some of the dumbest people I know dislike Slipknot and the other bands you most likely frown upon. And some of the smartest people I know "Dumb people's music" as you would call it.

Some of the dumbest people I know are very "smart". Doesn't make them wise, eh?

You seem to be arguing under the misapprehension that I'm arguing on my own behalf. I'm arguing for the thousands upon thousands of people who have enough spirit to recognize this sort of music as the garbage that it is. I'm arguing for all the people who need a voice to express this. I'm arguing on behalf of reason and sanity.


I like my music how I like my women, liked. I don't give a **** if anybody calls it mediocre or not (Except Roger Ebert, of course) if I like it, I like it. Screw everybody's opinon besides Roger Ebert's.

Then why are you up in arms when all I'm doing is expressing my opinion? xP

Because I might hurt this guy's feelings? Wah. What a horrible day it would be when someone's feelings got hurt. End of the world, probably.



Let's clear up a few more things: I could care less if everyone who reads this suddenly falls to the ground and starts worshipping the bands I love. I don't care if anyone else respects my opinion. I don't express my opinion because I want to brainwash everyone else into agreeing with them. I express my opinion because it's who I am, and because I'm passionate about it, and because it's important to me.



Also: I am very much aware that my taste in music is not universal. There are many artists whose music I personally do not enjoy, yet for whose talents I have deep respect. There are also artists and songs that I personally enjoy that I can recognize as being talentless and derivative.

I'm not saying that Slipknot sucks because I don't like them. I'm saying Slipknot sucks because Slipknot effing sucks. It's not that I don't get them. I get them, and they suck.



Liek, Editzors!:
...Wow. That was amazing. I didn't think you had the hypocrite in you, honestly. I'm so proud of you, it reminds me that even the smartest men can be complete idiots at times.

I couldn't figure out what you were trying to say here, so I just let it go. I just now realized that you're under the impression that I was trying to imply that I myself am a badass. I'm not. I have never been a badass and will never be a badass. I am, in fact, little more than a #####cat.

You know what happens when you assume: I smear peanut butter in your underpants while you're not looking.

[Screech]

Music is a dynamic process. Saying something isn't good because it's not as technically complicated as a Verdi Opera isn't really doing music justice. It's implying that music HAS to follow certain rules, whereas it simply has to move you, it has to have rhythm. A series of chords and the different impressions they leave behind can be just as musically inspiring as jazz elements.

Although given, some bands just take it to a minimalistic extreme. But then again, minimalism is also an appreciated visual arts form. So why not in music as well? It's just a matter of time before complicated musical theory will dominate the market again, once the things powerchords can do have been exhausted. It might even an entirely new musical concept, we might never see any elements of Beethoven's Fifth ever again :-)

I know :) I was just throwing an idea out there. Music, like all artforms needs the boundries to be pushed. But I am saying that modern music, by composition, is pretty sucktackular. Yes, it is still music, and yes, I can still like it and listen to it (I love Beethoven, but music doesn't have to be to that level for me to like it XD)

It just bothers me that music is so cheap these days. Alot of it doesn't even have heart anymore. Alot of music only has power chords and yelling. Is it pushing the extreams of what music is, or is it just music dying out?

[ripht|CoC]

I know :) I was just throwing an idea out there. Music, like all artforms needs the boundries to be pushed. But I am saying that modern music, by composition, is pretty sucktackular. Yes, it is still music, and yes, I can still like it and listen to it (I love Beethoven, but music doesn't have to be to that level for me to like it XD)

It just bothers me that music is so cheap these days. Alot of it doesn't even have heart anymore. Alot of music only has power chords and yelling. Is it pushing the extreams of what music is, or is it just music dying out?

I think that (bolded text) has a very good point. It defines a huge dichotomy between good music and bad music. Good music needs to push boundaries. It's driven toward it.

Most good forms of music define the 'rules' of the art, and then push those boundaries, test them, becoming more wild, unique, and personal as this happens.

Unfortunately, most popular music in North American culture has done the exact opposite. They've created very specific boundaries about what's accepted and what's not. Now they're shrinking those boundaries, for god's sake. xD How many white-trash size-two blonde-haired talentless idiots do we need singing on TV? xD

And with plastic surgery, now our artists are even striving to look identical! Imagine every face on TV looking exactly the same. Imagine every one of your friends striving to have the same features. Striving to shed their originality. What a horrifying concept!

Originality has become a dated concept. On with the march of cookie-cutter bands with false stock emotions that they've purchased from Wal-Mart! On with the march of nondescript albums and derivative power chords!



Dear America:
You are free... to do what they tell you.
Love, Rationality

[Kevim]

Meet the man that made me
Greet the can that I came from
Oh the ####ing sacred heart of Jesus
Blew it in the back room
Feelin' like a real goon
Slam the #### aside, man
I'm on - you're not

I am the great big mouth

Good riddance - though I'm sad to say
I didn't get to kill you
Rhetoric - Better look both ways
I gotta get an arm through
Stain
What the #### is up? Get the #### away
Run if you want to
Innocent? You're a guilty conscience
Laugh last - break through
Stain

Prepare you ####er

I don't give a ####, #####
I don't give a ####, #####
I don't understand, #####
You don't matter
I don't give a ####, man
I don't give a ####, man
I don't really care, man
I'm the super sized man

Come on, man. My anus could write better lyrics than that on crack. And it's hard to clench the pen 'twixt my cheeks.

Seriously. Take a deep breath, take a second look, and just admit it: Their music is ####. Just admit it! You'll feel a lot better. I promise.

Good job picking out one of their worst songs, Ripht. Even the best of musicians have a few bad songs here and there.

Yeah. It does. In today's market, it effects it negatively. An interesting artist is also a risky artist. Labels don't like taking risks, and -- since humans are more than willing to settle for crap artists -- the labels don't have to.

Yes, but labels still pick the best "safe" bands.

Because it gets picked up by a major label and presented to the masses on a silver platter. People don't like taking the time to think, and they certainly don't like effort, so they accept what they're given and smile happily. Usually they drool on themselves a bit as well, in my experience.

I've never seen a Slipknot commercial. I've never seen a Slipknot billboard. I've never seen any abnormal marketing stratgies that the major label might have done to get their band recognized by the masses. The masses single out these bands for good reasons... Because they like it.

Britney Spears.

Britney Spears made it because she was a good singer, and her lyrics (Although bad) and just overrall style appealed to girls and young women. She was the first of her kind.

Because intelligent lyrics are a huge part of music. Most of our society has forgotten that, but it's true. Witty well-written lyrics are an important part of quality music.

...Or most of society just doesn't give a damn about the lyrics, or listen to your local popular music radio station. Almost all mainstream rap, or even most classic rock. They lyrics are trash, but people still love them. Apperently lyrics are not as important as you give them credit for.


Then why are you up in arms when all I'm doing is expressing my opinion? xP

I think your opinion sucks. Just as you think the people who like Slipknot's music does.


Let's clear up a few more things: I could care less if everyone who reads this suddenly falls to the ground and starts worshipping the bands I love. I don't care if anyone else respects my opinion. I don't express my opinion because I want to brainwash everyone else into agreeing with them. I express my opinion because it's who I am, and because I'm passionate about it, and because it's important to me.

Sorry 'bout that then. Because I don't know if it is just me or not, but saying a band somebody claims to like and telling them to stop liking it and admit that it is crap sounds like brainwashing a bit to me.

Also: I am very much aware that my taste in music is not universal. There are many artists whose music I personally do not enjoy, yet for whose talents I have deep respect. There are also artists and songs that I personally enjoy that I can recognize as being talentless and derivative.

I'm not saying that Slipknot sucks because I don't like them. I'm saying Slipknot sucks because Slipknot effing sucks. It's not that I don't get them. I get them, and they suck.

..................Why don't you read that portion over again, mate?

[ripht|CoC]

Good job picking out one of their worst songs, Ripht. Even the best of musicians have a few bad songs here and there.

No. They don't.

Your lack of standards toward musicians is a big part of our problem here.

Good musicians do not make bad music. That's what makes them good.

Anyway, I picked that song at random. Don't prove me wrong by making a sarcastic comment. Find a Slipknot song with well-written lyrics and post them. I dare you.

Yes, but labels still pick the best "safe" bands.

Awesome. We're getting the BEST of the ####ty music. That makes me feel so much better.

I've never seen a Slipknot commercial. I've never seen a Slipknot billboard. I've never seen any abnormal marketing stratgies that the major label might have done to get their band recognized by the masses.

Not all commercialism is represented by billboards. Pay closer attention to what's going on around you. Open your eyes already.

The masses single out these bands for good reasons... Because they like it.

And the majority of people have atrocious taste in music. Am I the only one who feels like we're going around in circles here?


Britney Spears made it because she was a good singer, and her lyrics (Although bad) and just overrall style appealed to girls and young women. She was the first of her kind.

-_-
And how is that possible exactly? It's hard to be a good singer when you aren't a singer.
(You do realize that isn't her voice, yes? You do realize that she doesn't write her own songs, yes? You do realize that everything about her was fabricated by a PR team, yes? She is not an artist because she does not create anything. She is a corporate face (and body ;)). Nothing more. She's there to make young men horny enough to buy her awful albums.

This is, of course, speaking in reference to pre-18 Britney. Current-day Britney doesn't make anyone horny. Unless you find herpes attractive, I suppose.)


...Or most of society just doesn't give a damn about the lyrics, or listen to your local popular music radio station.

Exactly. Most people have terrible taste in music.

Almost all mainstream rap, or even most classic rock. They lyrics are trash, but people still love them.

This is the point I'm trying to make. Are you even paying attention to what you're saying?

"The music sucks, but people love it, therefore the music is good!"

Attention does not make someone talented. TALENT makes someone talented. There is no substitute.


Apperently lyrics are not as important as you give them credit for.

Yes. The majority of people are complete tools, therefore being a tool is clearly the correct course of action. That makes perfect sense. Let's all be toolbags because MTV told us that everyone else is a toolbag.

Baaaaaaa. Moooooo.


Sorry 'bout that then. Because I don't know if it is just me or not, but saying a band somebody claims to like and telling them to stop liking it and admit that it is crap sounds like brainwashing a bit to me.

Then you don't know a single goddamn thing about brainwashing. =)


..................Why don't you read that portion over again, mate?

Kay. I have. No problems. Perhaps you need to read it again yourself, or tell me what you fail to understand so that I may explain further.


Edit:
Actually, I'll save you the trouble. You're operating under the idea that ALL art is equal. That ALL quality is in the eye of the beholder. You don't see any distinction when I show the difference between good music that I don't like and what I call "bad music." You assume that "bad music" is any music that the beholder does not like, and so you do not see any fault lines between "music I don't like" and "bad music."

Just because you do not see the lines between these two things does not mean they aren't there. Passion cannot be measured, but it can be discerned. Any trained ear can hear when a singer puts true emotion into their vocals. It's not difficult.

Slipknot contains NO real emotion. They contain NO unique ideas. Their music contains NO true effort or passion. It is prepackaged. It is hollow. It is piss-poor music, and if you believe it is high-quality music then you have piss-poor taste in music. This is not my opinion. This is simply the way the world is. I am not trying to force these things upon you. I am merely pointing out the truth.

[Kevim]

No. They don't.

Your lack of standards toward musicians is a big part of our problem here.

Good musicians do not make bad music. That's what makes them good.

Anyway, I picked that song at random. Don't prove me wrong by making a sarcastic comment. Find a Slipknot song with well-written lyrics and post them. I dare you.

Hhahaha... Slipknot song.... with good lyrics. You make me laugh. I'm not denying that the lyrics to their songs aren't absolute #### (Slipknot likes that word), I'm just saying you picked the ####tiest of the ####. I found plenty of songs with better lyrics then the song you posted, but I can't find any lyrics that I would call good, let alone you.

Awesome. We're getting the BEST of the ####ty music. That makes me feel so much better.

I was going to say that, but then I though that'd be just a tad bit suicidal.

-_-
And how is that possible exactly? It's hard to be a good singer when you aren't a singer.
(You do realize that isn't her voice, yes? You do realize that she doesn't write her own songs, yes? You do realize that everything about her was fabricated by a PR team, yes? She is not an artist because she does not create anything. She is a corporate face (and body ;)). Nothing more. She's there to make young men horny enough to buy her awful albums.

There is no Cabal, Ripht. Stop being so skeptic. Now, I know her songs weren't written by her, but that was her singing. How else do you think she got in to the Mickey Mouse Club? By having other people's voices singing while she was pretending? Britiney Spears was a singer, and a pretty decent one at that.

Kay. I have. No problems. Perhaps you need to read it again yourself, or tell me what you fail to understand so that I may explain further.

I'll edit this in.


Edit:
Actually, I'll save you the trouble. You're operating under the idea that ALL art is equal. That ALL quality is in the eye of the beholder. You don't see any distinction when I show the difference between good music that I don't like and what I call "bad music." You assume that "bad music" is any music that the beholder does not like, and so you do not see any fault lines between "music I don't like" and "bad music."

Pre-mother-####ing-cisely! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in my humble opinion.

Just because you do not see the lines between these two things does not mean they aren't there. Passion cannot be measured, but it can be discerned. Any trained ear can hear when a singer puts true emotion into their vocals. It's not difficult.

A song can be the most heartful, passionate thing piece of art ever created, but if nobody likes it, then it is bad. If nobody beholds it, then apperently there is no beauty in it.

p.s. I just left some things out because I knew I would be giving the same responses as I did time and time before, and you would be giving me the same replies as you have been.

[DarkReality]

There is no Cabal, Ripht. Stop being so skeptic. Now, I know her songs weren't written by her, but that was her singing. How else do you think she got in to the Mickey Mouse Club? By having other people's voices singing while she was pretending? Britiney Spears was a singer, and a pretty decent one at that.

Yea. Post-computer-editing, everyone can sing pretty decently -_-

Just give up. You're not getting anywhere and you're not making any point.

[eyebrow]

It was Britney Spear's voice, but it was computerized and adjusted to make it sound twice as good as she really sings.

[ripht|CoC]

There is no Cabal, Ripht. Stop being so skeptic. Now, I know her songs weren't written by her, but that was her singing. How else do you think she got in to the Mickey Mouse Club? By having other people's voices singing while she was pretending? Britiney Spears was a singer, and a pretty decent one at that.

A paranoid is simply someone in possession of all the facts. :)

Pre-mother-####ing-cisely! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in my humble opinion.

Beauty is. Talent, skill, and intelligence are not. This is the distinction I am trying to make.

You can like Slipknot all you want. That's cool with me. You can enjoy their music. I've no problem with this. But please try to do it with the rational understanding that it is not truly good music. It might be enjoyable, but that doesn't make it good.


A song can be the most heartful, passionate thing piece of art ever created, but if nobody likes it, then it is bad. If nobody beholds it, then apperently there is no beauty in it.

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. :) I know that by now you're probably just going to the extreme trying to keep this argument going, but I can't even imagine a proper response to that.





Anyway, waaaaaaaay back on topic... I was going to post this days ago, but my internet connection took a ####.
Some rap/hip-hop/dance artists I enjoy:

-Shpongle
-Intro5pect (more punk/dance than rap, but still quite fabulous. One of my favorite bands.)
-the Emergency Broadcast Network
-mc chris
-Soophie Nun Squad (not necessarily rap/hop-hip/dance... in fact, I'm not really sure what the hell SNS are. Other than gewd.)
-Danger Doom
-DJ Shadow
-MC Hawking
-Faithless
-Gnarls Barkley (One of only two MTV rap/hip-hop artists that I can say lives up to my standards...)
-the Gorillaz (The second of two)
-the Herbaliser
-MIA
-Captain Jack


(Please note, as has been mentioned previously, that just because I enjoy these artists does not mean that I consider their music to be truly Quality music. Some I do. Some I do not. Listen to them and decide for yourselves which is which.)

[Woolfenstien]

This thread has increased Andeh's 0wnage skill by +6, allowing him to level up.

Great posts by a great man.

And Slipknot are crap compared towards other bands of the genre. Coal Chamber > Slipknot anyday.

[Dr. L]

Bleh, not my style really. I'd personally rather have Barbara Streistand rape my ear with a cucumber, but that's just my personal opinion.

[ripht|CoC]

This thread has increased Andeh's 0wnage skill by +6, allowing him to level up.

-allocates skill points into Ranting Like a Mad Bastard and Overpowering ####ery-

-gains new ability: Complete Lunacy (When Complete Lunacy is activated, all damage done to Ripht is taken from his MP, and all spells cast use HP. All restorative items and spells are effected similarly.)-

-gainst new trait: Pantsless Wonder (When Ripht has no pants equipped, his magical attacks do 1.5x damage)-


Bleh, not my style really. I'd personally rather have Barbara Streistand rape my ear with a cucumber, but that's just my personal opinion.

Rap or Slipknot? Or both?

[Kevim]

A paranoid is simply someone in possession of all the facts. :)

If false facts even count as facts.

You can like Slipknot all you want. That's cool with me. You can enjoy their music. I've no problem with this. But please try to do it with the rational understanding that it is not truly good music. It might be enjoyable, but that doesn't make it good.

Hey... want to know a secret?

...I hate Slipknot. I've only heard a couple songs I even liked by them. I'm just argueing a.) Because it is what I believe in. I'm sick of all these people who come in saying "That band sucks so bad, it is the corporations, man" and acting like the hippies they are. b.) Because I am a redneck bastard who like to argue. c.) Lack of things to do.

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. :) I know that by now you're probably just going to the extreme trying to keep this argument going, but I can't even imagine a proper response to that.


Yeah, that was pretty damn stupid. The will to go on plus tiredness made me start thinking a bit irrationaly.

[Dr. L]

Rap or Slipknot? Or both?
Well, how many straight people in San Francisco does it take to screw in a lightbulb? That's right. Both of them.

[Screech]

I'm sick of all these people who come in saying "That band sucks so bad, it is the corporations, man" and acting like the hippies they are.

Hey, what's wrong with hippies? I happen to like hippies.

And corperations ruin music. It's just that way. I'm not saying the "man" is out to get us, it is just that it is drawing the line between art and money very thin. It is that way with all art forms these days- commercialist culture side effects. Without a doubt, it is not the fault of some man in a buissness suit, it is OUR FAULTS FOR BUYING INTO IT.


Edit: Instead of being a jerk who sais "do this" but has no course of action, heres some things you can do to support music, not commerce.

1-Research and support local bands, singers and rappers.
Chances are, there are quite a few good bands in your area that you don't even know about. You will get to hear music you would not get to hear otherwise. Underground music scenes exist everywhere, so its not very hard to find. Go to the shows, it is usually a great time, and also, usually cheap.
2- Buy CDs from indie labels or unsigned musicians
Instead of buying a CD from a band on a major lable, support the bands who are struggling for their music. They do need money after all to live, and your support goes alot farther than it would by buying the new slipknot CD. Usually, these albums will be alot cheaper, and as a plus, you can get more great music and CDs for your money then you would if you bought really expensive CDs from the record store.
3- Support local buissness
If you REALLY need a major album, wait a little while, then you can get it at a local used record store for cheap. The money goes towards a local shop and helps people in your community, and you still get the music you want (without being a pirate! arrr!)!
4- Be a nice fan!
If you like an artists work, TELL THEM! Artists who are in it for the music rather than the money will appriciate a letter or talk from a fan after a show. Mostly for artists who are struggling, knowing someone cares can really be a boost :)

[ripht|CoC]

If false facts even count as facts.

:rolleyes: What a great argument. I think you've finally managed to get the three-year-olds in the crowd on your side.


a.) Because it is what I believe in. I'm sick of all these people who come in saying "That band sucks so bad, it is the corporations, man" and acting like the hippies they are.


...erm. You do realize that I was arguing with this guy over his claim that an entire effing genre of music sucks, yes? Which is a far sight more ignorant then claiming a band sucks.

Go back to your cave, monkey. Intelligent conversation does not become you.

[Teh~GD]

Wow. Just wow. This is the best thread I have seen in a long time.

Music has become a shallow and commercial shell that it formerly was. I blame MTV and the idiots that buy the "fluff" music. MTV made music something that you watched, not listened to. Image was made more important then sound. Quality was replaced with a PR team. Then of course, all the flocks of sheep run over and buy it. When the music industry found out that all Ashlee Simpon's and Slipknot's and Hip Hop artists make money, they squeeze as much as they can out of them. Most of my music comes from the 70's and 80's, when music had a purpose and meaning. The music today has no true meaning; either it has none, or it is given to the musicians by a PR team. Rap itself is not bad. It is just a form of expressing yourself. My problem arises when the expression is shallow and pointless.

[DarkReality]

Well, how many straight people in San Francisco does it take to screw in a lightbulb? That's right. Both of them.

Technically it was a tasteless joke. But a funny tasteless joke XD

Plus it didn't really fit into the context o.O

Usually, these albums will be alot cheaper, and as a plus, you can get more great music and CDs for your money then you would if you bought really expensive CDs from the record store.

On top of that, the amount of music you get when you buy a CD from a famous band is rather... sad. At least that's a trend I've been observing: less and less music gets put on a CD that sells for more and more. I paid approx. 17 dollars for 30 minutes Linkin Park - Meteora. That's 50 cents for every damned minute. And that's ridiculous.


Music has become a shallow and commercial shell that it formerly was. I blame MTV and the idiots that buy the "fluff" music. MTV made music something that you watched, not listened to. Image was made more important then sound. Quality was replaced with a PR team. Then of course, all the flocks of sheep run over and buy it. When the music industry found out that all Ashlee Simpon's and Slipknot's and Hip Hop artists make money, they squeeze as much as they can out of them. Most of my music comes from the 70's and 80's, when music had a purpose and meaning. The music today has no true meaning; either it has none, or it is given to the musicians by a PR team. Rap itself is not bad. It is just a form of expressing yourself. My problem arises when the expression is shallow and pointless.

Although we shouldn't generalize and call ALL music bad. I know a few bands that are incredibly famous but make incredible music. Red Hot Chili Peppers for one. I don't know how many albums they've put out, but I don't think I've ever had the feeling I'm listening to the same thing over and over.

Alright, I can't think of any others, but you get the point XD

[Woolfenstien]

I used to like Linkin Park, but ever since I bought meteora about... 2 years ago? I've hated them. Meteora was in my opinion a squeeze. And that collab with J-Zee. That sucked. A bit of Faint, I think, thrown in with that damned awful song about 99 #####es and a ##### aint one or something.

[h00pla]

I like Beastie Boys >_>

Pretty much i go by what my friends tell me about (Irish Rebel Songs FTW!). And since none of them really like rap or any of the other "derivations" mentioned I don't listen to them.

[DarkReality]

I used to like Linkin Park, but ever since I bought meteora about... 2 years ago? I've hated them. Meteora was in my opinion a squeeze. And that collab with J-Zee. That sucked. A bit of Faint, I think, thrown in with that damned awful song about 99 #####es and a ##### aint one or something.

I felt like I rebought Hybrid Theory. And after that... yea, it went pretty downhill. They then resold their resale and added some of Jay-Zee's lyrics to it (I don't think it counts as a collab if you only splice songs without actually making new ones? Does it?o.O).

[ripht|CoC]

Wow. Just wow. This is the best thread I have seen in a long time.

Music has become a shallow and commercial shell that it formerly was. I blame MTV and the idiots that buy the "fluff" music. MTV made music something that you watched, not listened to. Image was made more important then sound. Quality was replaced with a PR team. Then of course, all the flocks of sheep run over and buy it. When the music industry found out that all Ashlee Simpon's and Slipknot's and Hip Hop artists make money, they squeeze as much as they can out of them. Most of my music comes from the 70's and 80's, when music had a purpose and meaning. The music today has no true meaning; either it has none, or it is given to the musicians by a PR team. Rap itself is not bad. It is just a form of expressing yourself. My problem arises when the expression is shallow and pointless.

http://www.plan-it-x.com/
http://www.thedears.org/
http://thelongwinters.com/


The indie music scene produces some amazing, passionate, and truly beautiful music. Not all music made today is crap. Like I said, you've just got to put some effort in to find the good stuff.

[Screech]

Well, since its a rap thread, heres a list of indie and unsigned rappers and hip-hop artists (Some are comedic, some arn't. I don't listen to some of the bands/artist, its just a starting point to discover what you like!):

Jamie Kennedy
Khia (You don't see many chicks doing gangsta rap. :))
Jeffree Starr (He's in the hot chicks thread somewhere, blol.)
mc chris (gotta love him!)
Mc Devo
Atmosphere (Vince showed me this band, very good)
The Streets (awsome!)
Necro (Graphic music- He isn't part of a lable because he didn't want to be censored.)
Lighter shade of brown
Free (another woman :) beautifull voice)
40 cal
T.O.K.
Kiana Lauj

[Gerbil!]

Oh. My. God.

Ripht, you remind me of Maddox.

[/offtopic]

Anyways, some rap songs I like:

Remember The Name - Fort Minor

Rid' Wit Me (It's overall greatness, everything fits in perfectly) - Nelly

Numb/Encore - Jay Z + Linkin Park

I know, very few. ._.

[Choft]

Prepare to get flamed, in...

3...2...1...

It's stuff like that will be likely to get you guys flamed.

I like rap, end of story.

[ripht|CoC]

Oh. My. God.

Ripht, you remind me of Maddox.

It's been a while since I really got my rant on. It feels damn good. It's truly cathartic. It's hard to imagine experiencing a spiritual rebirth with higher clarity (without the use of psychedelic aids).

[Mik3h]

I like Beastie Boys >_>
Woot same :P.

I like Hilltop Hoods, if anyone has heard of them.

[ACE555647]

Nah, I hate rap.
Rappers are wanna be thugs.
who would wanna be a thug I have no idea.
Thugs and gang members just end up being shot or arrested on the streets.

[h00pla]

After all the posts in this thread you think it's a smart idea to say something like that?

[Woolfenstien]

I felt like I rebought Hybrid Theory. And after that... yea, it went pretty downhill. They then resold their resale and added some of Jay-Zee's lyrics to it (I don't think it counts as a collab if you only splice songs without actually making new ones? Does it?o.O).I don't think splicing a song up should count as a new one. With that being said and with the thoughts of being moderatley on-topic, Reanimation was possibly the best metal/rap album I've ever listened to.

[Kevim]

:rolleyes: What a great argument. I think you've finally managed to get the three-year-olds in the crowd on your side.

Go back to your cave, monkey. Intelligent conversation does not become you.
That hurt my feelings, Ripht. Now I have to shoot a small mammal with my paintball gun or something.

[DarkReality]

Your attempt at humor failed?

At least I didn't laugh.

[ACE555647]

Well... there are like 2 or 3 rap songs I like...
I'm just not a fan of gang members after me and my friends were chased by 4 of them with switch blades and Iron bars.... Luckily we had bikes.............That was the last time we rode behind Dollar General. =)

[fire23150]

i like rap

[h00pla]

Well... there are like 2 or 3 rap songs I like...
I'm just not a fan of gang members after me and my friends were chased by 4 of them with switch blades and Iron bars.... Luckily we had bikes.............That was the last time we rode behind Dollar General. =)

I love how you cna tell who didn't even skim the thread before posting

[ACE555647]

Yeah... sorry 'bout that.
I just thought the title was pretty self-explanitory.

Wow... I already have a relationship with the administrator... He is already annoyed at me . =)

[Homer43]

Yeah... sorry 'bout that.
I just thought the title was pretty self-explanitory.

Wow... I already have a relationship with the administrator... He is already annoyed at me . =)

He'll get over it...

*concealed laughter*

[Teh~GD]

I don't think splicing a song up should count as a new one. With that being said and with the thoughts of being moderatley on-topic, Reanimation was possibly the best metal/rap album I've ever listened to.

That CD is in my car stereo right now. A lot of those songs are better then the originals, and the guests are awesome (black thought is my personal fav from the bunch.) I was displeased with Meteora, but maybe all the time they are putting into their next album will help it out.

As a side note, Fort Minor isn't all that great. I was hoping for more from Shinoda, but a lot of it looked like either A. a 'pop' song with no meaning or B. an LP song minus everyone else (which isn't that bad)

As another side note, thanks Ripht for showing me some good indy bands. I guess it's like in comics. Once you get away from the corporate businesses you do get some REAL music. check em out.

[Alphaniner]

i here all about greenday and propagandi and all this emo stuff im not dissing it but im wondering if their is any rap fans

i like:
dem franchize boys
g unit
young jock

wut do u like

No, sorry, I only listen to good music :p. Just kidding. I have Ghetto Musick. That's about it.

[zecantu]

Eminem is more hip hop. DFB's dont sound like Eminem at all. They be rap.

50 cent
Eminem
Dem Franchize Boys
Yound Dro
P. Diddy
G-Unit
T.I.
2pac
Chamillionaire
Chingy
DMX
Lil Jon
Obie Trice
Proof
Snoop Dogg
Three Six Mafia
Trick Trick
TPain
Twista

Basically all the major artists with a few lower class ones.

50 cent-Good.
Eminem-Okay.
Dem Franchize Boys-Great.
Yound Dro-No, just no.
P. Diddy-Okay.
G-Unit-Meh...
T.I.-Good.
2pac-Okay.
Chamillionaire-Good
Chingy-NO!
DMX-No, he acts like he's half dog or something.
Lil Jon-Yes.
Obie Trice-Okay.
Proof-No.
Snoop Dogg-Great.
Three Six Mafia-Great.
Trick Trick-NO!
TPain-Great.
Twista-No.


That's what I think of those people.

[Alice Cooper]

Well guys, there's only two people I can handle when it comes to rap. Snoop Dogg and Sir Mix A Lot. Don't ask

[masterkung1]

i love rap im a rap junkie my favorite rapper is lil wayne and T.I. and cassidy and pappoose

[LILGansta87]

Dont Make fun of rap, rap is the best genre of music, its raw.............
T.I. and young Joc r raw

[Woolfenstien]

Dude, rap sucks.

Listen to some Pantera, most notably 'Goddamn Electric' and '####ing Hostile'.

That got me out of rap like I get the poop out of my bottom.

[ripht|CoC]

-_-

Dear Woolfenstein:
You have terrible taste in music. Please read through this entire thread and replace "Slipknot" with "Pantera" where applicable.

Thanks!
-Ripht

[Woolfenstien]

Pantera didn't sell out...

Oh well. No point trying to... Something.
You'll win anyway.

[/defeatist]

[LILGansta87]

Rap is raw, Young dro, chamillionaire, rick ross, lloyd Banks, 50 cent, there all kool

[Master Stick]

i dont like rap at all

[AssaultRifle]

Rap isn't my style. I mean, I don't /hate/ it... but I am more into alternative rock.

If I am at a bar or in a club, however, I want some hip hop and rap to be playing. Not because of the atmosphere, it is just much better to dance to. Girls LOVE dancing to rap and hip hop...

[neotris9]

I don't listen to a ton of music but when I do its usually rap.

[Elite Force]

i like them and Eminiem, Nelly, LL Cool J, Pdiddy, Xzibit, and 50 cent.

Ya i like alternative rock and just plain rock too, but i'd perfer rap and hip hop.

[LILGansta87]

i love rap, i listen to it everyday. Its Basically a habbit

[MikeJD]

-_-

Dear Woolfenstein:
You have terrible taste in music. Please read through this entire thread and replace "Slipknot" with "Pantera" where applicable.

Thanks!
-Ripht
I really don't want to get involved in this but I get a little offended when slipknot is compared to Pantera. Also, I think it's kind of dumb that this is turning into such a big argument. Listen to what you want and if someone wants to listen to something else let 'em.

[ripht|CoC]

I really don't want to get involved in this but I get a little offended when slipknot is compared to Pantera.


I didn't.


Also, I think it's kind of dumb that this is turning into such a big argument. Listen to what you want and if someone wants to listen to something else let 'em.

I agree. I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not listen to. I am, instead, clarifying that intelligence and talent are important traits of music. If you claim that music that does not have these traits is Good Music, then I am telling you that you have bad taste in music. If you disagree, then you are welcome to your opinion but your opinion sucks and I don't care. :)

[MikeJD]

I agree. I'm not telling anyone what they should or should not listen to. I am, instead, clarifying that intelligence and talent are important traits of music. If you claim that music that does not have these traits is Good Music, then I am telling you that you have bad taste in music. If you disagree, then you are welcome to your opinion but your opinion sucks and I don't care. :)

yea I definitely agree with talent being important because if they're just doing something that's unoriginal and doesn't involve skill then why should anyone be interested.

[Bonekhan]

Bah--I hate all most rap, and the kind I do like, no one else like =X

[general grievous]

Rap is an alright genre, but im more of an R&B

[masterkung1]

Dude, rap sucks.

Listen to some Pantera, most notably 'Goddamn Electric' and '####ing Hostile'.

That got me out of rap like I get the poop out of my bottom.rap is better than,country,some rock music,techno,heavy metal ect.

Rap is the hotest thing out every were you go you hear rap songs,its better than listining to that Toby Kieth crap yall call country.
we want somthin we can bump our heads to not square dance,rap can never die!!!!!!!!

[ripht|CoC]

...Yay. Yet another six-year-old.

Go throw your tantrum someplace else.

[e p]

Rap is the hotest thing out every were you go you hear rap songs,its better than listining to that Toby Kieth crap yall call country.
we want somthin we can bump our heads to not square dance,rap can never die!!!!!!!!

Woolfy never said that he listened to country. Learn to read, idiot.

Also, just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

And I'm sorry, but I don't "bump my head" to my music. I don't know about you, but I don't like to hurt myself while I listen to music. And not all country is about square dancing. Learn some facts before you stereotype. That's like saying all rappers are black guys that were shot 10 times. (Not that I like country)

And at least think a little about your post before you throw a hissy fit and look like an idiot.

[shaun thomson]

i do enjoy a slight bit of rap and hip hop, i like the australian hip hop group called pegz, and also i like the ying yang twins and buba sparxxx

i do enjoy it some of the time, but other times metalcore is were it's at

[masterkung1]

Woolfy never said that he listened to country. Learn to read, idiot.

Also, just because it's popular doesn't make it good.

And I'm sorry, but I don't "bump my head" to my music. I don't know about you, but I don't like to hurt myself while I listen to music. And not all country is about square dancing. Learn some facts before you stereotype. That's like saying all rappers are black guys that were shot 10 times. (Not that I like country)

And at least think a little about your post before you throw a hissy fit and look like an idiot. welcome to USA rap is popular evrywere i get crunk to rap and some rock i dont know any other music genre that you can hit the 'pool palace' (a dance) to.I think all rap fans are cool so thats my opinion and i dont care wat yall say.I like lil wayne,T.I.and,busta rhymes.
you cant kill rap foo!

[DarkReality]

...

Yea. Go back to polishing your bling bling and stop posting. Coherent sentences simply aren't your thing...

[firedragpwn]

*barf* You like rap?

Blarg..bl..*barf*

No more needs to be said.

Blarhg ahhg aasfdasf im barfing aswell