Peaceable Kingdom

[Screech]

We watched this film in one of my classes today, and it had a profound effect on many of the students in the class. The movie, Peacable Kingdom (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7013048855715857701&q=kingdom&pl=true) is long, and hard to watch (DISTURBING IMAGE WARNING- shows animals in cruel situations), but I definatly recomend it.

Immediatly, I never wanted to eat meat again after watching this. However, all the meat I eat is locally raised on organic farms, and humainly killed. I feel so helpless watching some parts- It really made me want to make some sort of change.

What do you think about the video?

[Mike Holiday]

What's wrong with mercilessly slaughtering animals? They don't feel pain the same way we do. Plus, it's the only way we can survive. If some superior race needed to slaughter us for sustenance, I'd have no problem with it. Natural selection, baby, When an animal is crippled, it needs to die. Period. If it's diseased, it needs to die as soon as possible as to not disease others. It's how life with Flesh-oriented creatures works.

Edit: The movie is awesome.

[Screech]

As in the movie, it showed animals that did feel pain, and mourn others from the herds/ thier young. It is foolish to think that animals don't feel pain. Would you slit open the throat of your pets and hang it for its blood to drip? Of course not, because you love your pet and you do not want it to suffer.

Human beings can survive without meat, no problem. Or, one could easily make sure they buy meat from organic farms rather than industrial ones.

[Coheed]

Hey Mike Holiday if your child is retarded are you gonna kill it?

[Woolfenstien]

I didn't watch the movie all the way through.
Lack of anything happening in around the first 3 minutes tends to strike me away from the involved film, and tells me to go and watch something like Jimmy's Farm on BBC2.

Am I right in getting the idea that it's a psuedo-PeTA organisation making this movie? Because that's what it seems like.

Sure, call me heartless and all that, but I'm going to eat meat regardless of who's publishing the bottom of the barrel in the meat industry onto TV and the net while there're honest farmers who manage more than just animals to scrape themselves a living. I mean, what good are pigs apart from meat? Of course, a pet piglet would be great, but in today's squashed world, it'll have to be put down or sent away from the owners when it grows up. And there's no tasty alternative to a nice bit of tender beef and beef gravy, so I won't be going veggie anytime soon.

Just so you know, screech, I've re-read my post and it seems a little harsh towards you. I don't mean it towards you, I mean it to the scaremongers. I mean, do whatever you want with your life. I mean, everyone's entitled to an opinion, and as long as I can keep my own, everyone deserves thier own.

And jews are worse with the throat slitty business. They actually suspend the animal alive, and then slit the throat, but in a way that it's still alive so it bleeds to death. Kosher.

[Screech]

I'm not offended- I posted that video to gain peoples perspective. In all honestly, I knew most of the readers would be like "So what? I like meat.". I'm not surprised.

And I knew someone who worked in a kosher slaughterhouse. Not a happy place.

[Woolfenstien]

Hey, you would do it too for your religion, as would I.
Flying Spaghetti Monsterism FTW.
Pasta every friday :D

[Coheed]

I'd do the farm girl in the green shirt.

[AeroZ]

It wasnt too bad..I still feel bad for the animals but it was putting them out of theuir misery, for their horrible life...

[Screech]

I hope you all realise you cannot grasp the entire movie by the first two minutes :P

[DarkReality]

What's wrong with mercilessly slaughtering animals? They don't feel pain the same way we do.

... nope, you're absolutely right. Their apparent lack of nerve cells prevent them from feeling pain, a basic survival instinct tool -_-

You're either a disgrace or painfully horrible at sarcasm.

I'd do the farm girl in the green shirt.

Without a doubt the most fitting comment anyone could have made :D

[manoftheman6]

Just want to tell you guys, there are alot of humans who are in alot worse conditions than these animals are, some pleading for death from deformations and shock, o well, gotta love good ol north american animal rights groups! screw the people in the third world countries! No on cares about them! lets protect the animals!

[Vagrant]

Plus, it's the only way we can survive. If some superior race needed to slaughter us for sustenance, I'd have no problem with it. Natural selection, baby, When an animal is crippled, it needs to die. Period. If it's diseased, it needs to die as soon as possible as to not disease others. It's how life with Flesh-oriented creatures works.

Edit: The movie is awesome.

So you believe in Social Darwinism? There is such a thing as compassion, and it is a part of human and mammalian nature.

What's wrong with mercilessly slaughtering animals? They don't feel pain the same way we do.

Bzzt. Wrong. Nerve endings in animals are roughly equivalent to nerves in humans. They feel pain just as much as we do.

And jews are worse with the throat slitty business. They actually suspend the animal alive, and then slit the throat, but in a way that it's still alive so it bleeds to death. Kosher.

Jews aren't allowed to eat blood. Of course they drain the blood. Can you imagine what the Day of Atonement in ancient Israel was like? The temple would literally be flowing with blood. Some people hypothesize that there were special troughs designed to carry the blood away from the temple.

Just want to tell you guys, there are alot of humans who are in alot worse conditions than these animals are, some pleading for death from deformations and shock, o well, gotta love good ol north american animal rights groups! screw the people in the third world countries! No on cares about them! lets protect the animals!

Because we can do everything at once, and we can all access all parts of the world at once. No, we can't. We try to help the animals and the people at the same time. But since we can't go to the third world countries, we simply donate money to causes. With the animals, we can actually do something.


Personally, I wish slaughterhouses would do their best to make the death as quick and painless as possible. I also wish the animals had better living conditions. Unfortunately, it is a necessity in order to feed the masses of people today. A sad catch-22, isn't it?

[Area 51]

Social Darwinism FTW! If somthing can't adjust to make itself useful to us, it should be slaughtered mercillisly for our own sustinence.

Still HUMANS > LESSER ANIMALS! I side with Holiday on this one.

[Vagrant]

Social Darwinism FTW! If somthing can't adjust to make itself useful to us, it should be slaughtered mercillisly for our own sustinence.

Still HUMANS > ANIMALS! I side with Holiday on this one.

Humans are animals, phool. Are you saying that we're greater than ourselves?

[gorgieboy]

Yup, but do they care about it in the same way? The pain I mean.

Are they as self aware as us?



[kind of offtopic] What I think is really nasty is milk, I mean drinking the baby-juice of a four legged, hairy creature? It seems pretty bad now I think about it.

But I do drink milk :P

[HungryMonkey]

... They threw away chicks? :(

[Vagrant]

Yup, but do they care about it in the same way? The pain I mean.

Anything with a nervous system will shy away from pain. Nothing alive likes pain. Even trees and plants, which can't feel pain, have chemical defenses against herbivores.

Can you honestly say that your dog or cat likes pain? It's the same with farm animals. Pigs are as intelligent as dogs. No animal likes pain. They avoid it like humans do.

Are they as self aware as us?

Do you mean consciousness? I can't say. However, if you've ever been in really close contact with a couple of animals, you'll find that they each have their own personalities, much like humans. The two cats I have have very unique personalities, in my opinion.

There's many animals in the wild that demonstrate intelligence beyond what they're credited. Crows demonstrate an incredible level of intelligence in birds. They're almost like the humans of the bird kingdom.

What I think is really nasty is milk, I mean drinking the baby-juice of a four legged, hairy creature? It seems pretty bad now I think about it.

Mammals are specifically named after that milk... Mammal... mammaries. Mmm, mammaries.

... They threw away chicks?

More accurately, male chicks. Because males cannot lay eggs, obviously, they were tossed out.

[Mike Holiday]

We are superior to animals for the reason that we use tools. While I would kill my dog if it bit someone, I might not kill my pet monkey if it hit someone. If one of my pet's offspring came to be handicapped, I'd kill it. We are animals, but we display a higher amount of potential. Also, for all you people with the sympathy stuff...If natural selection didn't exist, and all the flawed creatures survived and went on to reproduce, then everything on earth would die out relatively quickly-Including us. Also, about the pain thing...I go by freuidian standards, which say that we feel pain differently due to the fact that we have an ego and superego. Animals only have an ID, and if they DO have a superego, as displayed in animals that travel in packs and herds, then it's very small. Many animals will eat their offspring in a tight spot. They put themselves before others. We, on the other hand, have a relatively HUGE superego, which usually won't allow us to do things like that. This is mostly due to our higher intelligence.


But Mike, are you saying that your child should die if it's handicapped???

My superego says "No way!!!".
My Ego says "Nah."
My ID says "**** yeah, leave his *** on the sidewalk!!!!!"
My ego is the one that makes the decisions, so I'm gonna have to say no on this one. Even so, the fact remains that natural selection put us in here, and if we're not careful, It'll take us right back out.

[Anonymous]

Call me a ##### if you will, but I started to cry. I can't stand to see animals killed or to die at all. Heck, I cried when I was 10 when our neighbors part-blind and deaf dog died, and I only went over there occasionally.

I am never going to eat meat again....I hope. I hope I can remeber this every time I am eating. Hmm...

[Vagrant]

We are superior to animals for the reason that we use tools.

Animals use tools too, you just don't face the fact.

Crows have been seen to bend wires in order to pick up food from an otherwise unattainable regions. Dogs, pack hunters, use as many scents as they can to scare prey into an ambush. Manta Rey use dust to disguise themselves as the sea bottom, and will lay in ambush for prey. Rock spiders create burrows under a small rock, and disguise it. When they feel a tiny vibration in the right spot, they'll reach out and grab the prey and pull them into their burrow where they'll slaughter the prey. A very nice little trap, I must say. I could also go on about the other, more famous, spider trap of a web.

Everything on the exterior of the animal is used as a tool. Cats use their saliva to make themselves scentless, and are excellent small prey hunters. They cannot make tools because they are physically incapable of doing so. It doesn't mean they aren't intelligent enough to make it.

We are animals, but we display a higher amount of potential.

Oh, oh, oh, oh... I'm gonna go on like a schoolgirl on this one.

First off, the potential to do what? We have the potential to kill, the potential to help, and the potential to ignore.

Humans. Ah yes, humans. We call ourselves the smartest of all animals. And yet our stupidity is invasive. Because of our extreme intelligence, we actually overbalance nature. What you fail to realize Mike, is that because of our supposed "intelligence," we are actually incredibly stupid. Tell me, what has the human population done to every environment it has invaded? It has destroyed every environment it has entered.

Now, you may claim that it's part of our intelligence to naturally overpower everything. But what you don't understand is that nature will come back to haunt you. The polar ice caps are melting. We're losing our ozone layer. We're slowly losing oxygen due to dying algae in oceans and other places. Areas in Russia near Chernobyl are still feeling the effects of radiation today. Hurricanes are getting worse off the coast every year. We have hunted to extinction many animals, and almost killed off other species. Unfortunately, the species we have saved now have very limited diversity, so they're essentially screwed anyways.

We've domesticated hundreds of animals, that, before being domesticated, were wild, vigorous, and tough. These animals now cannot live without the support of humanity. Your cats and dogs could live in the wild. They still retain enough of their original status to do so. But farm animals are beyond help.

Now, I'm sure this is sounding all fine and dandy to you at this point, right? Well, here's the kicker: The more species we endanger, the more we endanger ourselves. As heterotrophic consumers on the ecological chain, and top predators, we are also dependent on the species below us. If all meaty animals below us were to die from some freak accident, we'd also die due to deficiencies in our diets. If we kill plants with pollution and poison our atmosphere with CO2, we're screwing ourselves over.

So much for our intelligence, right?

Also, for all you people with the sympathy stuff...If natural selection didn't exist, and all the flawed creatures survived and went on to reproduce, then everything on earth would die out relatively quickly-Including us. Also, about the pain thing...I go by freuidian standards, which say that we feel pain differently due to the fact that we have an ego and superego. Animals only have an ID, and if they DO have a superego, as displayed in animals that travel in packs and herds, then it's very small.

Ah, but natural selection also contains some very unfit ideas behind it too. ;)

Ever heard of sexual selection? Oh yeah, this baby is fun. Darwin could never quite explain why there's brilliant plumage on some birds, or manes on lions (or why human women have such relatively large breasts. It's true, human breasts are unusually large). These hindrances lower the relative fitness of an animal, and make it easier to spot by predators.

Ever heard of feral children? These children were found by animals in the wild, usually dogs, sometimes large cats or other animals. These children were typically found by female animals, who have an instinctive motherly urge. Instead of slaying the children on the spot for food, the mothers instead choose to save their lives. What am I saying? Compassion is natural.

The animals that typically eat their young are insects or sharks. Insects and sharks are not mammals, and thus don't have the same compassion.

Studies show that animals who raise their young for longer times and provide more parental care are also the animals that do the best in the wild. Can you guess why humans do so well? As a child, we're a hindrance for almost 13 years!!! That is INSANE in parental time, in the animal world. Yet, because we acquire so much knowledge from the past, we do well. So what am I saying here? Compassion is beneficial.

So, compassion is both natural and beneficial. You were saying?

We, on the other hand, have a relatively HUGE superego, which usually won't allow us to do things like that. This is mostly due to our higher intelligence.

Bull####. We don't eat our young because cannibalism is both socially unacceptable and unhealthy. Cannibalism greatly increases your risk of catching very unusual genetically-related diseases.




And on a side note -- Mike, we use a lot of species of plant and animals to cure our own diseases. When we kill more animals or plants, we may lose the potential to cure a certain disease.





PPS: Hot damn. This is my wall of text for the week.

[Alphaniner]

We are superior to animals for the reason that we use tools. While I would kill my dog if it bit someone, I might not kill my pet monkey if it hit someone. If one of my pet's offspring came to be handicapped, I'd kill it. We are animals, but we display a higher amount of potential. Also, for all you people with the sympathy stuff...If natural selection didn't exist, and all the flawed creatures survived and went on to reproduce, then everything on earth would die out relatively quickly-Including us. Also, about the pain thing...I go by freuidian standards, which say that we feel pain differently due to the fact that we have an ego and superego. Animals only have an ID, and if they DO have a superego, as displayed in animals that travel in packs and herds, then it's very small. Many animals will eat their offspring in a tight spot. They put themselves before others. We, on the other hand, have a relatively HUGE superego, which usually won't allow us to do things like that. This is mostly due to our higher intelligence.

Animals use tools. Otters like to eat shellfish, but are unable to open the shell with their paws. What do they do? They use a tool. They crack the shell open on a rock. You are not giving animals the credit that is due to them. And having a flawed animal isn't gonna cause Armageaddon(sp?) or anything. Just look at the platypus :p. Just kidding on that one. But seriously, you're saying all these animals are gonna kill us off? We would never allow that to happen, and you know it.

Humans give themselves too much credit, and don't give animals enough credit. Dolphins are extremely intelligent. Primates can learn sign language. Many animals are capable of communicating with each other by emitting tones of different frequency, which is much like humans do when talking. Within an hour of birth, zebras can identify their mothers solely by their stripe patterns. Animals are much smarter than you seem to think. Those are just the facts I know off the top of my head, I could look up more, but don't feel like it. Have I proved my point yet.

By the way, are you saying that if some "More intelligent" species appears on Earth, and you happen to have a case of the common cold, a member of that "higher species" would have a justifiable reason to kill you? Why would you kill a dog, but not a monkey if they both attacked someone? It seems rather arbitrary to me.

I understand that if an animal is extremely sick, and there is no cure, it is more humane to have it put to sleep. Last year, my dog got very sick. It turns out he had cancer. Whenever he tried to eat anything, he threw it back up about 30 minutes later. After 2 days, we decided to have him put to sleep. It was either that, or he would starve to death, and him being a beloved family pet, we didn't want him to suffer any more than he already had. Aww, crap. I'm tearing up while typing this...

Anyways, Freud was a madman. Either that or a genius. But I'm leaning towards madman.

Judging from what I've heard, I don't want to watch the video. When we took my dog to be put to sleep, I had to leave the room, and I felt like I was gonna be violently sick all day.

[Mike Holiday]

We don't eat our young because cannibalism is both socially unacceptable and unhealthy.

That's your superego speaking.


Come on, people. We have a 3 pound brain. We have weapons that can literally turn the earth into dust!!! When's the last time a dolphin, otter, or cat picked up a gun and shot at you? We are the dominant race on this planet!!! There's no use arguing about this...There was no use starting this debate. I don't really give a **** about animals, as I'm sure they don't give a **** about me. Now, who cares how smart these things are? They're not smarter than you, and they're not smarter than me. It'll take at least 10,000 years, if the planet/humans last that long, for another species to challenge us. We are on the top of the food chain. The top!!! do you know what that means?!! I can go out and eat anything I want to eat, at any time. I don't have to watch my back at night, because I have an advanced shelter made of wood, stone, and metal. I'm entering this text into a machine created by humans. It contains hundreds of parts that work through magnetism and electricity. Do you know what you're looking at right now? This is the WORLD WIDE WEB. That means that I can send Gigabytes of information to a person in japan before you can make a cup of coffee. This was all created by humans!!!! The question was not whether animals were smart. The question is, are we superior? The answer is yes, and the proof is all around you.
That stinky question still lingers. Am I saying that all other species aren't worthy? No. I know we can't survive without other living things. However, we've dominated other species for thousands of years, and unless some madman comes up with a crazy, off the wall theory to prove me wrong about what we both know to be true, We'll continue to do so.

If you really want to end this, get your pet dog, or your cat, or whatever pet you have to type something in their defense. I'll give you all my xcash, shut up forever, and act as your slave for the rest of my life.

[Doug05257]

We watched this film in one of my classes today, and it had a profound effect on many of the students in the class. The movie, Peacable Kingdom (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7013048855715857701&q=kingdom&pl=true) is long, and hard to watch (DISTURBING IMAGE WARNING- shows animals in cruel situations), but I definatly recomend it.

Immediatly, I never wanted to eat meat again after watching this. However, all the meat I eat is locally raised on organic farms, and humainly killed. I feel so helpless watching some parts- It really made me want to make some sort of change.
It made me want to make a change in the world - changing cow into hamburger.


And Vaggy, pigs are tastier than dogs, so it's okay. ;)

[Espo Mk. II]

We watched this film in one of my classes today, and it had a profound effect on many of the students in the class. The movie, Peacable Kingdom (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7013048855715857701&q=kingdom&pl=true) is long, and hard to watch (DISTURBING IMAGE WARNING- shows animals in cruel situations), but I definatly recomend it.

Immediatly, I never wanted to eat meat again after watching this. However, all the meat I eat is locally raised on organic farms, and humainly killed. I feel so helpless watching some parts- It really made me want to make some sort of change.

What do you think about the video?survival of the fittest. the strongest one survives.

[Alphaniner]

That's your superego speaking.


Come on, people. We have a 3 pound brain. We have weapons that can literally turn the earth into dust!!! When's the last time a dolphin, otter, or cat picked up a gun and shot at you? We are the dominant race on this planet!!! There's no use arguing about this...There was no use starting this debate. I don't really give a **** about animals, as I'm sure they don't give a **** about me. Now, who cares how smart these things are? They're not smarter than you, and they're not smarter than me. It'll take at least 10,000 years, if the planet/humans last that long, for another species to challenge us. We are on the top of the food chain. The top!!! do you know what that means?!! I can go out and eat anything I want to eat, at any time. I don't have to watch my back at night, because I have an advanced shelter made of wood, stone, and metal. I'm entering this text into a machine created by humans. It contains hundreds of parts that work through magnetism and electricity. Do you know what you're looking at right now? This is the WORLD WIDE WEB. That means that I can send Gigabytes of information to a person in japan before you can make a cup of coffee. This was all created by humans!!!! The question was not whether animals were smart. The question is, are we superior? The answer is yes, and the proof is all around you.
That stinky question still lingers. Am I saying that all other species aren't worthy? No. I know we can't survive without other living things. However, we've dominated other species for thousands of years, and unless some madman comes up with a crazy, off the wall theory to prove me wrong about what we both know to be true, We'll continue to do so.

If you really want to end this, get your pet dog, or your cat, or whatever pet you have to type something in their defense. I'll give you all my xcash, shut up forever, and act as your slave for the rest of my life.


We're "Superior" because we have thumbs. If superior is the correct word. Seriously, without thumbs, there is so much we couldn't do, and animals could simply destroy us. You disgust me. -Leaves thread-

[Vagrant]

That's your superego speaking.

... my superego doesn't determine what's socially unacceptable and what's unhealthy. Cannibalism is very dangerous to your health.


Come on, people. We have a 3 pound brain. We have weapons that can literally turn the earth into dust!!! When's the last time a dolphin, otter, or cat picked up a gun and shot at you?

Let's put it this way: It's not that we're necessarily smarter. It's our physical capabilities. Let me explain it more clearly:







We're bipedal. This means we can carry things such as weapons in the first place.
We have hands. Without hands, we'd still be back in Africa. Dolphins are actually more intelligent than us, but because they have flippers, they can't do a thing.
In other words, you can't say animals are necessarily stupider than us because they can't do the same things. That's because they're physically incapable of doing things humans can.
We are the dominant race on this planet!!! There's no use arguing about this...There was no use starting this debate.

You don't get it, do you? We're the dominant terrestrial macro-organism. In the microcosmic world, we could hardly do anything to kill them off. Nor would we want to. In the oceans, we've hardly made a dent.

Why wouldn't we want to kill off other organisms? Simple really. We need them to help cure our diseases.

It'll take at least 10,000 years, if the planet/humans last that long, for another species to challenge us.

What? Microbial organisms don't count as a species? They wiped us out in the last Black Death.

Hell, non-living viruses or proteins can kill humans. It doesn't have to be an animal.

We are on the top of the food chain. The top!!! do you know what that means?!! I can go out and eat anything I want to eat, at any time.

Don't worry, the detritivores (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detritivore) and decomposers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decomposer) are waiting. Come on now, what's with this idea that you don't get eaten as well? Those microbes will get you in the end.

Ecosystems consist of cycles. Nobody is truly at the top. The thought of such an idea is simple arrogance.

I don't have to watch my back at night, because I have an advanced shelter made of wood, stone, and metal.

No, it's because you have an advanced immune system and fellow humans which help scare the animals. If animals want a way in your house, they can find it. Microbes ignore all our fancy shelters.

I'm entering this text into a machine created by humans. It contains hundreds of parts that work through magnetism and electricity. Do you know what you're looking at right now? This is the WORLD WIDE WEB. That means that I can send Gigabytes of information to a person in japan before you can make a cup of coffee. This was all created by humans!!!! The question was not whether animals were smart. The question is, are we superior? The answer is yes, and the proof is all around you.

Read previous point: None of this would be possible without hands. It has nothing to do with intelligence. It's because we're physically capable, not mentally. If we weren't as mentally capable as we are now, it simply would take us longer to get to this point, because we would still have hands.

That stinky question still lingers. Am I saying that all other species aren't worthy? No. I know we can't survive without other living things. However, we've dominated other species for thousands of years, and unless some madman comes up with a crazy, off the wall theory to prove me wrong about what we both know to be true, We'll continue to do so.

So your reasoning is that might makes right? Am I correct?


If you really want to end this, get your pet dog, or your cat, or whatever pet you have to type something in their defense. I'll give you all my xcash, shut up forever, and act as your slave for the rest of my life.

Oh, you're the clever one. Those cats and dogs are really capable of using their claws to manipulate the keyboard, and they certainly understand our language. We certainly understand their language too.

The only interspecies communication that can be understood between animals involves emotion. Animals don't know what you're saying unless they relate it to a habit. Mammals can recognize emotion in a voice, just like people.

Cats are probably the funniest things. If they've been with you long enough, they may eventually learn to imitate the emotional sounds humans make. My cat literally groans when we pick him up. He's learned what cute, pathetic meows will earn him more attention. He knows that when we pick up a towel, we're gonna throw him out the door, so he sticks his head in his foodbowl in order to delay us from throwing him out.

[MOOGLEFIGHTER]

There's a book called "Peaceable Kingdom" too, great book.

[Screech]

There's a book called "Peaceable Kingdom" too, great book.

The Peacable Kingdom: A Primer in Christian Ethics By Stanley Hauerwas

Sounds like a fun read XD

[Espo Mk. II]

We watched this film in one of my classes today, and it had a profound effect on many of the students in the class. The movie, Peacable Kingdom (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7013048855715857701&q=kingdom&pl=true) is long, and hard to watch (DISTURBING IMAGE WARNING- shows animals in cruel situations), but I definatly recomend it.

Immediatly, I never wanted to eat meat again after watching this. However, all the meat I eat is locally raised on organic farms, and humainly killed. I feel so helpless watching some parts- It really made me want to make some sort of change.

What do you think about the video?animals are cute! and even cuter when they are being slautered!