Kid wins suit over his Teacher... about Religion. [Archive]

Dragon

05-11-2009, 07:46 PM

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=40328

What the hell happened to free speech? How did this pass?

The anchors really bothered be as well, they acted as if all his words were a crime. Then again, this is fox, so that's to be expected.

I know what the teacher was saying wasn't really needed or okay but to sue and win against that? That's a violation of constitutional rights.

Discuss.

Wolfhowlz

05-11-2009, 07:52 PM

LOL suing the teacher wasn't necessary. I do think that bashing religion is against school policy, so maybe just go to the principal or something.

Dragon

05-11-2009, 07:55 PM

Agreed with the fact that it was disrespectful, maybe he could have been fired at MOST...

I think things were just taken further then they should have gone.

Defective

05-11-2009, 07:55 PM

Yes things like this are ridiculous. I realize that the teacher should not have totally bashed religion but to go all the way to sue the guy about it is stupid. And I realized that we do have free speech but a very strict and very delicate form of it. If you say one thing that goes against anything you get total backlash. It seems that even though we have free speech there are people out there who watch what we say and if we say something that goes against their beliefs (not just religion) that they get so angry that they have to make a big deal out of it. I know that we can't all agree on everything, but really just let it go.

Marty

05-11-2009, 08:11 PM

Nothing out of the ordinary. People get sued for just about everything. I'd like to know how much he won out of the court aswell and if the guy got fired. Does it say anything?

Mr. Anderson

05-11-2009, 08:11 PM

Welcome to America, where you can sue people for reasons you blow out your ass

Scornic

05-11-2009, 08:32 PM

See Dragon, liberals want to take your money. Conservatives want to give you the freedom to say what you want while keeping your money.

THIS IS WHY YOU VOTE RON PAUL AND NOT OBAMA.

my 2c

Timelinemc

05-11-2009, 08:32 PM

It was European history class, that was definitely not European history.

The teacher should be fired, and I think the kid did a good job standing up for his beliefs, though it should have been settled out of court.

Those comments were completely inappropriate, and the teacher should have known that.

AssaultRifle

05-11-2009, 08:41 PM

By this kid's logic, the teacher could have counter-sued him for being against the teacher's beliefs, being that's what he did.

Freedom of speech - look it up. Just because you are in his class doesn't mean you are to agree with everything he says, but that doesn't mean you should be a little faggot and run to the courts whenever someone doesn't believe what you do.

Timelinemc

05-11-2009, 08:55 PM

Fabian920

05-11-2009, 09:01 PM

Timelinemc

05-11-2009, 09:05 PM

There is always the option to warn the person if he's doing something wrong. It's a human's nature to make mistakes. Like my grandfather, once he starts talking about turks he just can't stop. I sometimes shake him and tell him there is a borderline. All that is required is bringing the teacher back to earth by just telling him he is making you uncomfortable.

There were over 20 videotapes of him on his tangents.

Your grandfather isn't a teacher who we entrust with educating the youth of our country, and in many cases entrust them with teaching our youth common courtesy and virtues, nothing against your grandfather.

a1b23

05-11-2009, 09:43 PM

Welcome to America, where you can sue people for reasons you blow out your ass

True but this is legitimate. There is no reason that a teacher should openly criticize anybody or anything. This is so clear cut and obvious! This teacher has no right to bash any religion or viewpoint. I see this nearly every day at school. Especially the History and Government professors. They lecture and slip in comments on how conservatives are bad (that their policies don't work) or how Bush failed anything to bash Republicans.

If I was in that class I would feel both personally offended and unable to learn in that class. But I can't say anything because I am the lowly student who is there to learn. If I was to say something, I would get either talked down or removed from the class. This is complete bullshit! No one of any background/religion/whatever should have to deal with this persecution ever.

This kid was right in doing what he did. The teacher was slandering. Yes, there is free speech but not when it interferes with my learning. Check your crazy views and comments at the humping door! If it doesn't pertain to the class (and I am most sure his comments did not) DON"T HUMPING SAY THEM!!!!!!!

/passionate rant

poguemahon

05-12-2009, 03:40 AM

Wow... "Chad" is a GOD!!! Oops, can't say that. That's blasphemy, and I'm liable to get sued for bashing quackery.

Anyway, this went too far. The kid shouldn't have sued, but the teacher shouldn't have bashed religion, so it's a foul-up on both sides.

denacioust

05-12-2009, 03:47 AM

That kid's a bit of douche.

What exactly is the money going to do? Why sue? Surely a complaint to the board of management at the school would've sorted it out.

Joest

05-12-2009, 04:15 AM

My history teacher said nutty conservative things last year (Not the 'sane' conservative, I'm talking about really nutty poop).

Matt

05-12-2009, 05:05 AM

My Global Geography teacher makes fun of Bush every so often, we see no problem in that.
In these classes you can't help but dip into politics and religion because you are discussing current events, the geography of the area, who owns what, why a war was between these two countries, etc. There will always be opinions on them expressed and as much as I think it's retarded for that douche of a kid to sue that teacher shouldn't have expressed his opinion that bluntly or that often.

For those atheists, imagine having to go to say your favorite class and having the teacher preach about the love of god to you a few times a week. That would soon be the most hated class by you and many but I can't see anyone needing to sue over it...

dragon,clan,leader56

05-12-2009, 07:39 AM

Really? I do not see the point in suing the teacher for that, but he should of at least gotten fired or something, suing him was a little to much.

DarkReality

05-12-2009, 10:33 AM

I think it's great how claiming that evolution is wrong is absolutely OK, but claiming that religion is wrong is apparently a crime worthy of capital punishment when it comes to "conservatives". The teacher said what he believed. Sure, he was insulting, but no more than conservatives are when they speak of "liberals" as if they were some sort of plague (spare yourself the sarcastic comments), so quit your hypocritic preaching about your rights and your persecution when it's you who tries to stomp out any deviating opinions (I'm just going to vaguely refer to the Kansas school board here).

Seriously, going to court because of it? Grow a pair of balls, America. You feel persecuted because someone insulted you and doesn't believe the nonsense you do? Boo ####ing hoo. There are opinions out there that aren't yours, live with it. I think it's ridiculous that speaking out against god can be countered with a civil law suit. Are you ####ing Iran or what?

I think it's great that he actually pointed out religion as what it is, sparing the possibility of a god actually existing, and that he wasn't afraid to put people on the stand for believing something and then hiding behind some bullpoop shield. Apparently freedom of religion and speech only go so far.

See Dragon, liberals want to take your money. Conservatives want to give you the freedom to say what you want while keeping your money.

Speak up, I couldn't hear you over the sound of the Patriot Act being passed and applauded by... well... mostly everyone, actually. Apart from Ron Paul and his 27 supporters :-p

This should have been a page 17 midsection headline saying "Teacher Fired for Blah Blah Blah" instead of what it has become.

And let Fox pass up a chance to insult the atheist intellectuals who are ruining the USA? Pff.

AssaultRifle

05-12-2009, 10:38 AM

No, he couldn't counter sue, because the students were forced to go to his class, while being in court was his own fault. Otherwise they would be committing truancy, and changing classes or schools is very hard to do. Plus, the student was not just going to court for himself, he saved lots and lots of kids from being uncomfortable in the classroom because of what he did. And as I stated before, it was a European history class, meant for teaching European history, not a class on religion or philosophy. He didn't go to court because the teacher didn't have the same beliefs, he went to court because that teacher was illegally imposing his beliefs on his students in a rude manner.
Hey! That guy is doing something I don't like and mildly inconveniences me! LET'S SUE HIM!

That's the mentality that just gets me angry at jerkoff people like him. He didn't need to take this to court, the furthest he should have taken it is probably to the administration of the school.

This should have been a page 17 midsection headline saying "Teacher Fired for Blah Blah Blah" instead of what it has become.

Scornic

05-12-2009, 10:54 AM

Speak up, I couldn't hear you over the sound of the Patriot Act being passed and applauded by... well... mostly everyone, actually. Apart from Ron Paul and his 27 supporters :-p

Hey, last I counted there was AT LEAST 28 of us.

Why did you have to remind me of the Patriot Act? Now I'm going to rage all day.

~Nooba~

05-12-2009, 11:02 AM

Religion should just be kept out of schools entirely.

DarkReality

05-12-2009, 12:13 PM

Religion should just be kept out of schools entirely.

More like out of our lives, amirite?

>_>

Why did you have to remind me of the Patriot Act?Because I can. I BEAR THE TRUTH!

http://asymptotia.com/wp-images/2008/02/knut_polar_bear_cub.jpg

I'm pretty sure this image is not related.

Eidolon

05-12-2009, 01:06 PM

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise there of, or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." - The United States Constitution

How about we keep our law suits constitutional and stop bending the rules because someone's feelings got hurt. Sure the teacher could be reprimanded by his employer, and fired. But bringing the government into a domestic "My feelings got hurt because he spoke his mind" case is absurd and unconstitutional.

The Brown Cow

05-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Word! So if I decided to become a Holocaust denier, could I sue my teachers for disagreeing with my viewpoint?

Real education has been dying for decades. We're so trained around standardized testing and the horrors of college admissions that we students serve more as robots than creative thinkers. If your teacher is preaching about something that you disagree with, then DISAGREE WITH HIM. Argue your side. That's the entire purpose of education, particularly at the high school and college levels. You're not sent to school to be an opinion sponge for your teacher. You're there to be passionate about topics that you care about and to explore those topics to the fullest extent. The teacher is there to provide facts and experience about the subject, not to feed you your ideas.

Grah. Education needs reform...

Mykester

05-12-2009, 01:49 PM

I don't see why the teacher was ranting about religion in a European History Class, let alone on 20 different occasions.

e p

05-12-2009, 01:49 PM

I guess I'll just repeat what everybody else has said in my own words:

The teacher was out of line, but there was no need to take this to court. However, anyone complaining about Freedom of Speech being infringed upon doesn't know that a person is not allowed to hinder another person's right to education, whether it be from words, clothing, etc.

I think a simple talking to the teacher after class or maybe a chat with the principal of the school could've solved this.

Tanktunker

05-12-2009, 02:05 PM

Eidolon

05-12-2009, 02:28 PM

The teacher was out of line, but there was no need to take this to court. However, anyone complaining about Freedom of Speech being infringed upon doesn't know that a person is not allowed to hinder another person's right to education, whether it be from words, clothing, etc.

Stating your opinion on a faith does not hinder anyone's education.

e p

05-12-2009, 02:35 PM

Stating your opinion on a faith does not hinder anyone's education.

Sure it can. If that's the person's faith and they hear it being bashed on multiple occasions, that can become a distraction.

Eidolon

05-12-2009, 02:44 PM

Sure it can. If that's the person's faith and they hear it being bashed on multiple occasions, that can become a distraction.

A watch going off on multiple occasions can become a distraction. A person standing up to blow their nose can become a distraction. Taking someone to court for being a distraction in a learning environment is hardly productive, and some would say outright stupid.

e p

05-12-2009, 02:47 PM

A watch going off on multiple occasions can become a distraction. A person standing up to blow their nose can become a distraction. Taking someone to court for being a distraction in a learning environment is hardly productive, and some would say outright stupid.

I didn't say that this should have been taken to court; don't put words in my mouth. If you looked my first post in this thread, you will see that I did not support this issue going into court.

There's a difference between a watch going off and someone being insulted. Nobody's going to be seriously reprimanded for having their watch go off (though if it happens consistently, something might be said), but a teacher of all people insulting someone, though it might be indirect or even unintended, should be reprimanded.

Tanktunker

05-12-2009, 02:48 PM

DarkReality

05-12-2009, 06:40 PM

I don't see why the teacher was ranting about religion in a European History Class, let alone on 20 different occasions.

I'm guessing there's going to be a reason, considering that 95% of European History has to do with religious conflicts and 5% has to do with Nazis.

The point of education is to create a large, stable middle class as a means of creating wealth for the state.

While still crafting an elite upper class to take control of the state and companies that the middle class will be working in. Although that's a statistical approach. You could just as well argue that the purpose of education is to give each person the chance to learn as much as they want and can and that said middle class will happen automatically because most people are unambitious or just not quite capable of understanding the intricacies of governing a nation, running a company, or doing something very complicated.

Sure it can. If that's the person's faith and they hear it being bashed on multiple occasions, that can become a distraction.

So every person wearing a cross (which might distract me) can be sued? Since when are distractions unconstitutional, anyway? Hindering someone's education means preventing someone from going to school, not distracting them. What next, you're going to sue the bullies (or rather their parents) when they give your kid wedgies?

That's nonsense. Schools, and even more so colleges and universities, thrive on discussion and debate. They're places to go and question what you know by complementing it with further information. Questioning someone's beliefs is, in itself, education. Being a dick about it might not be, but being a dick is hardly a reason to be sued. If someone can't stand people who disagree with them, then they should rethink living in society.

HungryMonkey

05-12-2009, 06:51 PM

Look Dark, I myself am an atheist, but I find the teacher is not blameless at all here. Wait, I had the video on and heard he was talking about Creationism. I take that back, this is ridiculous. Not being able to discuss creationism and call it what it is is the worst kind of pandering. That kid should have gotten laughed out of court.

a1b23

05-12-2009, 06:57 PM

That's nonsense. Schools, and even more so colleges and universities, thrive on discussion and debate. They're places to go and question what you know by complementing it with further information. Questioning someone's beliefs is, in itself, education.

Yes but if you have a one-sided debate that you can't comment on without fear of serious repercussions than how are you learning? Let's say you are attending a university and you are sitting in a history class pertaining to Colonial America (a time period very far from the present day). Your teacher happens to be a staunch conservative who bashes Obama and makes rude comments about Democrat policies every class. You, Dark Reality, speak up a few times defending your party. You take a test and notice a low grade despite a good effort put in by yourself. You speak to another teacher and ask him/her if they think the grade is appropriate, they say no. It is obvious that because of your dissension from his rank of thought he is "punishing you" by giving you low grades. How can you effectively learn in an environment like that?

HungryMonkey

05-12-2009, 07:03 PM

Yes but if you have a one-sided debate that you can't comment on without fear of serious repercussions than how are you learning? Let's say you are attending a university and you are sitting in a history class pertaining to Colonial America (a time period very far from the present day). Your teacher happens to be a staunch conservative who bashes Obama and makes rude comments about Democrat policies every class. You, Dark Reality, speak up a few times defending your party. You take a test and notice a low grade despite a good effort put in by yourself. You speak to another teacher and ask him/her if they think the grade is appropriate, they say no. It is obvious that because of your dissension from his rank of thought he is "punishing you" by giving you low grades. How can you effectively learn in an environment like that?

The difference here is that the kid was denying facts. Creationism is a state of willful ignorance, and that is counter to the purpose of education. Say I am an anatomy teacher, and I call phrenology pseudo science, but I offend one of my students because he is convinced phrenology is a true branch of science, so he sues me. This a more appropriate analogy here, since it shows a student coming from ignorance instead of a teacher harassing a student for political reasons. Plus, hypothetical situations are terrible for making a point.

The Brown Cow

05-12-2009, 08:00 PM

Yes but if you have a one-sided debate that you can't comment on without fear of serious repercussions than how are you learning? Let's say you are attending a university and you are sitting in a history class pertaining to Colonial America (a time period very far from the present day). Your teacher happens to be a staunch conservative who bashes Obama and makes rude comments about Democrat policies every class. You, Dark Reality, speak up a few times defending your party. You take a test and notice a low grade despite a good effort put in by yourself. You speak to another teacher and ask him/her if they think the grade is appropriate, they say no. It is obvious that because of your dissension from his rank of thought he is "punishing you" by giving you low grades. How can you effectively learn in an environment like that?
By reporting the teacher to administration so they can fire his stupid ass. If a teacher is actively quelling opinions that disagree with his own views, he does not deserve to be a teacher.

If the teacher in this instance was giving bad grades to students who disagreed with him, then I fully support firing him, and possibly even the lawsuit. Educators should not be suppressing education.

But first, show me that that's what he was doing, and that he wasn't just trying to stir up discussion in the class.

jason

05-12-2009, 08:56 PM

And as I stated before, it was a European history class, meant for teaching European history, not a class on religion or philosophy.

Wouldn't a lot of European History be about philosophers and religions?
Kids a tard and just wanted attention.
Teacher didn't have to state things the way he did. If you really want to convince somebody be creative about it.
Kid needs to stop being a ##### and say something.
Or,
Kid made elaborate plan using recording of class (Lawl!) and got a lot of attention and now he's totally the most popular kid at school cause' now he's on the intarwebz!

Guybrush Threepwood

05-12-2009, 10:44 PM

I agree with a lot of what the teacher was saying, but the thing is, a teacher shouldn't be saying that.

DarkReality

05-13-2009, 02:41 AM

-snip-

The problem is, none of this happened. The kid wasn't given a bad grade (as far as I could tell, at least, feel free to correct me, as always), he wasn't even arguing, he was simply insulted and acted like a pansy, going to a higher instance instead of standing up for what he believed in himself. If a teacher lets opinion have a bearing on an unambiguous test result, then that's a problem, I totally agree. This teacher didn't.

Although again, I find it fascinating how denying evolution in every possible manner doesn't count as willfully keeping kids uneducated.

e p

05-13-2009, 12:46 PM

So every person wearing a cross (which might distract me) can be sued? Since when are distractions unconstitutional, anyway? Hindering someone's education means preventing someone from going to school, not distracting them. What next, you're going to sue the bullies (or rather their parents) when they give your kid wedgies?

That's nonsense. Schools, and even more so colleges and universities, thrive on discussion and debate. They're places to go and question what you know by complementing it with further information. Questioning someone's beliefs is, in itself, education. Being a dick about it might not be, but being a dick is hardly a reason to be sued. If someone can't stand people who disagree with them, then they should rethink living in society.

I guess I'll have to repeat myself: I did not say the teacher should have been sued. And no, religious symbols are allowed to be worn since schools usually allow free practice of religion. However, if the person is trying to convert people in the middle of class or taking class time to preach about some god, then yes, it is hindering peoples' education and proper action should be taken.

Since when does hindering education have to mean preventing a person from going to school? Would the word "disruptive" be more clear, or is that word not broad enough either? :rolleyes:

On a side note, I'm pretty sure bullies have been sued for things like assault, though I can't verify it. I do agree that action should be taken against them, though not court action. Please don't take what I'm saying out of context.

DarkReality

05-13-2009, 02:25 PM

Since when does hindering education have to mean preventing a person from going to school? Would the word "disruptive" be more clear, or is that word not broad enough either?

Disruptive would be a good adjective. I believe, however, there is no right to "undisrupted education" much less in the Constitution itself. Especially not disruptions like a douchebag teacher. What exactly are you arguing anyway? I can't tell which one of you claimed that voicing an opinion on religion is unconstitutional.

e p

05-13-2009, 02:44 PM

Disruptive would be a good adjective. I believe, however, there is no right to "undisrupted education" much less in the Constitution itself. Especially not disruptions like a douchebag teacher. What exactly are you arguing anyway? I can't tell which one of you claimed that voicing an opinion on religion is unconstitutional.

All I was saying was that the education cannot be disrupted. And there is a law about this, or at least a Supreme Court ruling about this issue of disrupting the educational process. The Mary Beth Tinker case in 1965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_ District) showed that Freedom of Speech is allowed in schools. I mention this case because it dealt with the issue of disrupting education to some exent.

Timelinemc

05-13-2009, 03:46 PM

Talking about religious conflicts = I hate religion blah blah blah Christians are stupid blah blah blah?

Makes perfect sense to me..

DarkReality

05-13-2009, 04:09 PM

All I was saying was that the education cannot be disrupted. And there is a law about this, or at least a Supreme Court ruling about this issue of disrupting the educational process. The Mary Beth Tinker case in 1965 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v._Des_Moines_Independent_Community_School_ District) showed that Freedom of Speech is allowed in schools. I mention this case because it dealt with the issue of disrupting education to some exent.

... That case had to do with schools threatening with disciplinary actions for expressing an opinion. It had to do with students being expelled for exercising their first amendment right. The topic of disruptions was only mildly touched on and hardly relevant, seeing how the roles were reversed and the disruption that was implied would have been student protests (a major topic during those years). I don't think that a teacher aggressively voicing his opinion counts as a disruption like a school wide protest, especially not if that student hadn't bothered to tell this to any other responsible superior the other times it happened.

e p

05-13-2009, 04:18 PM

... That case had to do with schools threatening with disciplinary actions for expressing an opinion. It had to do with students being expelled for exercising their first amendment right. The topic of disruptions was only mildly touched on and hardly relevant, seeing how the roles were reversed and the disruption that was implied would have been student protests (a major topic during those years).

Point taken. I only picked an example that I knew off hand.

I don't think that a teacher aggressively voicing his opinion counts as a disruption like a school wide protest, especially not if that student hadn't bothered to tell this to any other responsible superior the other times it happened
I think it was a disruption, but it could have been handled by a school supervisor. If no action was taken by any school authority then something could've been done.

WVJimbo

05-16-2009, 07:18 PM

Yeah, that kid should have just told the principal, or better yet, shared his problem with the offending teacher himself. They could have (hopefully) talked it out. I don't think he should have taken to this to court either.

Alphaniner

05-18-2009, 04:11 PM

My favorite quote:

It's kind of crazy in this day and age, when we're having so many problems with the economy. I think these teachers should stick to what they're supposed to be teaching; reading, writing, arithmetic, and in this case, European History

It's kind of crazy in this day and age, when we're having so many problems with the economy. I think you should stop being a scum-sucking bastard suing over trivial bee-ess.

To me, it's not even so much that they sued, but that they had the gall to go on national TV and pretend it was about anything other than the money. What if the teacher had been mocking a Hindu god or a Muslim god? I bet you wouldn't see this kid making a big deal of it. And certainly not Fox News.