Affirmative Action Debate

[Ace2cool]

Recently, I partook in a team debate, with the thesis being : Affirmative action is biased and unfair, and should not be practiced by the admissions offices of colleges and universities in the United States.

My partner and I was put to debate AGAINST this thesis, and two of my other colleagues were on the PRO side of the thesis. What is your own opinion of this?

Affirmative action : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action

To sum it up, when affirmative action is taken in the admissions process at any school/job/you name it, the race/gender/ethnicity is taken into account. This means that if the school has a "ethnicity quota", and you are not as qualified as someone else, but are needed to fill the quota, then you would be selected over the other person.

What are your own views on this?



PS My side won the debate, even though I personally believe that affirmative action IS biased/unfair. (I'm Chinese, but I don't see how that has anything to do with the topic)

PPS. The ex Scholar's Club had a team debate thing going on a while ago, about world democracy.. that was good. I'd appreciate if those of you who participated in that debate would take some time to say something here. :)

[Matt]

I'll say what I said in the other thread (http://forums.xgenstudios.com/showthread.php?t=156340) about this.

It's like having 75% of the scholarships available to apply for are only for blacks and women. Me being a white male means I am instantly voided from many of the scholarships because "I'm not a minority". Just because there are less of them doesn't make them any more special than others or the fact that they should get all these extra things because they are "disadvantages" or part of a "minority".
They argue they want to make everyone equal, stop racism, etc but they don't realize those are two way streets.
Admitting to a University or handing out money to someone based on race or sex is wrong in my opinion. They should give/admit to people who are in most need or most qualified, not by their looks.

[Ace2cool]

-sigh-
Should have done a forum search.
I'll leave it up to a mod/admin to decide if they want to delete this.

I agree with you.

However, your statistics are not backed by any hard fact, and thus I find it hard to believe the credibility of your 75% claim.

A rebuttal or two..

Diversity helps build the road to the future that students at universities will be facing. If a white male attends a college with the same people around him throughout all 4-6 years of his major, he will have no experience with other races/ethnicities/genders. Studies have also shown that when students are put into a situation with a variety of different people, they tend to perform at a higher level than when the same people are among others of the same race. Why? Perhaps they are motivated to prove their superiority over the other culture. Perhaps, to them, they feel a certain sense of "nationalism" to their own race/ethnic past, and want to express that feeling through achievements in school.

Affirmative action brings realistic situations into what would otherwise be a dull, monotonous learning community at the campus' of many renowned universities, and motivates students to work proactively and achieve more with their time and money.

-Cody

[Matt]

I get the 75% from the scholarships offered at my school. It's my own personal experience, in fact they've been advertising scholarships and such for months recently and there has only been I think 1, maybe 2 that I would be able to apply for were I in Grade 12 looking for one. The rest are all for blacks, women and aboriginals. I'm not exagerating either.
I also doubt your statistics that "there have been studies". I don't care if some people do better when exposed to other cultures, we are exposed to it anyways because we have a very diverse group of people here in Canada. In fact go to Toronto and White people are the minority.

[Liokae]

-sigh-
Should have done a forum search.
I'll leave it up to a mod/admin to decide if they want to delete this.

I'm willing to let it stay up for now.

Just... forewarning with this type of volatile issue. I'll keep an eye on this, and flaming/trolling rules WILL be enforced. So make sure to keep things civil, or you'll be getting a quick week off.

[Mykester]

I think it's bullshit.

[Ace2cool]

I'm willing to let it stay up for now.

Just... forewarning with this type of volatile issue. I'll keep an eye on this, and flaming/trolling rules WILL be enforced. So make sure to keep things civil, or you'll be getting a quick week off.

Are you implying that I will be banned for flaming that occurs on this thread?

Mykester, care to elaborate?

[poguemahon]

I'm against Affirmative Action. The United States still has issues with racism, but telling people "He's black, so he gets a leg up" when the white guy is in the same situation is racist, whatever the motive behind it. All Affirmative Action is is a reinforcing of 40-year-old racial superiority complexes (you know, Jim Crow, whites only drinking fountains, that whole mess).

[Vagrant]

Let's go over the issues, shall we?



Pro-affirmative action

Historically, blacks and other minorities have been the poorest (and still are) the poorest group in America. This means they often do not have the opportunity to achieve higher education.
Without higher education, these minorities do not get better paying jobs, thus repeating the cycle.
Additionally, companies should strive to try and make companies as representative of the population as possible, because that recognizes equal employment for all. However, that should not be done at the sacrifice of competent workers, but instead between equally capable workers.

Anti-affirmative action

Racism, while not dead, is becoming a lot more minimal, and some people are seeing affirmative action work against them. The historical gap is starting to balance out.
Loans for college and higher education are available.
Many times the opportunities are there, but require a fair bit of work. Without putting effort forward, you should not expect a reward.



Personally? I'm not for affirmative action, as it lumps all "blacks" together, and all "whites" together in terms of who gets benefits. Instead, affirmative action should be redesigned to help people by social status, and not by ethnicity. Affirmative action is meant to break the cycle of poverty, but it should be for people of all skins.

However, redesigning affirmative action would mean those in charge of these programs would have to stop being lazy and lumping people together by ethnicity and actually pay attention to the details. Which they couldn't be arsed to do.

Oh, and FYI guys: Quotas for affirmative action are illegal, as ruled by the Supreme Court. The general rule is, if it is reasonable to do so, your company should have an ethnic population representative of the US's ethnic population (percentage wise). However, strict quotas are not legal.

[Liokae]

Are you implying that I will be banned for flaming that occurs on this thread?

No, no, that anyone who flames will be held accountable for it. Just reminding people to take a few deep breathes before posting if something riles them up here, since it's a lot more likely to happen here than in a thread about ponies and rainbows. =D

[Blastedt]

Positive discrimination is still discrimination.

And it's only positive for the one who gets it.

[DarkReality]

However, redesigning affirmative action would mean those in charge of these programs would have to stop being lazy and lumping people together by ethnicity and actually pay attention to the details. Which they couldn't be arsed to do.

Not to mention the hordes of Black Panther activists who would yap nonstop about the unfairness of society and how they should get special treatment because they were the only people to ever be enslaved in the history of the universe.

[Ace2cool]

It's also important to mention... it's not JUST African Americans who benefit from affirmative action. Sure, maybe they have a chip on their shoulder because of their history, and feel that the world owes them something, but when you boil down to hard fact, they're not the only people receiving a leg-up in college admissions. Asian/Hispanic minorities also account for some of the controversy surrounding affirmative action. There's that stereotype that Asians are always "book smart" and can get into the best colleges: these colleges aren't only looking for academic success though; entrance to each of these top notch colleges goes way beyond your performance on the SAT. You have to have SOME distinguishing factor that sets you apart from the other thousands of applicants, and that is not your SAT score and GPA alone.

The point I'm trying to get across is that some ethnicities DO outperform white males, and because they are more "qualified" for the school, affirmative action doesn't help them. Affirmative action allows all kinds of ethnicities become racially aware, and then, on a high scale, more equal.

[Mykester]

Mykester, care to elaborate?

Affirmative action implies that racism just works one way. We moved from a racist society against blacks, and now we're doing the complete opposite. Getting chosen for a job or University just because you're black/brown/yellow makes it unfair to the majority who also worked hard. I'd write more, but I'm just so damn tired.

[poguemahon]

It's also important to mention... it's not JUST African Americans who benefit from affirmative action. Sure, maybe they have a chip on their shoulder because of their history, and feel that the world owes them something, but when you boil down to hard fact, they're not the only people receiving a leg-up in college admissions. Asian/Hispanic minorities also account for some of the controversy surrounding affirmative action. There's that stereotype that Asians are always "book smart" and can get into the best colleges: these colleges aren't only looking for academic success though; entrance to each of these top notch colleges goes way beyond your performance on the SAT. You have to have SOME distinguishing factor that sets you apart from the other thousands of applicants, and that is not your SAT score and GPA alone.

The point I'm trying to get across is that some ethnicities DO outperform white males, and because they are more "qualified" for the school, affirmative action doesn't help them. Affirmative action allows all kinds of ethnicities become racially aware, and then, on a high scale, more equal.

But, "I'm Black, you're white, and he's brown" is still as divisive as "######, don't use this fountain." Why is it about skin color? The blood is red, the brain gray, and the bones white. It's inside that counts.

[Dan]

I'm against Affirmative Action. The United States still has issues with racism, but telling people "He's black, so he gets a leg up" when the white guy is in the same situation is racist, whatever the motive behind it. All Affirmative Action is is a reinforcing of 40-year-old racial superiority complexes (you know, Jim Crow, whites only drinking fountains, that whole mess).

"I've been getting treated differently than others for hundreds of years. It's about damn time I get treated differently than others!"

[Keblic]

because they were the only people to ever be enslaved in the history of the universe.

I lold