Poll: Religious or not?

[Ghecko]

Who in this whole forum is religious and who is not? I've often noticed mixed and got finally curious enough to make a thread and a poll about it.

It could be religious anything, I.E. Christian, Jewish, Muslim, etc.

For non-religious I basically mean that you are athiest or somewhere on the lines of that. By athiest, I do not mean worshipping trees and beleiving you will fertilize the ground when you die or anything like that (I believe that is a relgion called Animism). By athiest, I mean that you don't believe in any sort of god(s) and that there is no place to go when you die, no afterlife, etc.

As for me, I am non-religious. I don't believe in any sort of Heaven or Hell, or anything like that. If others are curious to know what I think happens when you die, my answer would be: nothing. It's just black, vague, emptiness, with all your memories whiped away. No emotions, no reality. It's just nothing.

No flaming please.

[e p]

I am not religious. I don't believe in an afterlife.

However, I am not an atheist. I can't ever really say I'm smart enough to know any sort of answer as to whether a god exists or not.

[Sebian]

Religious, but not "HOLY CRUD DONT DO THAT LOVE YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART *HIPPIE RANT*" religous.

[Spectral]

Jewish, non-religious, and on a completely unrelated note - sorta but not really believe in karma.

http://forums.xgenstudios.com/showthread.php?t=146824

[n3xus]

christian, but never goes to church

[Ignatz]

I'm Christian, I believe in God and Jesus. I'm not too sure about Heaven and Hell or reincarnation.

I go to church on Sundays and religious holidays. Not really anything beyond that.

[a1b23]

Same here. I am Christian. Go to church every week and youth group too. I have beliefs I just don't force them on people. I hate people that do that.

[~Nooba~]

I couldn't wait to be Catholic i got baptized at like... 3 days old. Then at 8 I was like wow, "This is some bull####".

[Vagrant]

Theistic Evolutionist.

[TmyApp.]

christian, but never goes to church


That used to be me. I don't go to church anymore.

[Blastedt]

I am ambivalent to the idea of an after-life; the idea of just infinite blackness when you die certainly scares me into wanting to believe.

If there is a god, I will worship him as fervently as if I had been my entire life. As for now, I cannot believe without proof.

[Ghecko]

I'm Christian, I believe in God and Jesus. I'm not too sure about Heaven and Hell or reincarnation.

I go to church on Sundays and religious holidays. Not really anything beyond that.

What I'm about to say is my view, my opinion, my way of seeing it; whatever you'd like to call it: When I first heard about reincarnation I thought (and still do think) it's a bunch of bullcrap.

On that note, I do not believe in past lives, futures lives; anything in that sort of category.

Another note: I was baptised when I was little (unrelated fact), and my mom doesn't know I'm non-religious. What do I do about that? Any tips?

[Dragon]

I'm in the same boat, Ghecko.

My family is Muslim and I've been a Athiest for a very long time now. They don't know and I still think and am sure that if I tell them they'll be extremely mad at me.

[~Nooba~]

I am ambivalent to the idea of an after-life; the idea of just infinite blackness when you die certainly scares me into wanting to believe.

If there is a god, I will worship him as fervently as if I had been my entire life. As for now, I cannot believe without proof.
You're dead, there's no infinite blackness. You just die.
My family is Muslim and I've been a Athiest for a very long time now. They don't know and I still think and am sure that if I tell them they'll be extremely mad at me.
My parents learned to understand.

[TmyApp.]

the idea of just infinite blackness when you die certainly scares me into wanting to believe.



I thought I was the only one who thought about that.

[Ghecko]

I'm in the same boat, Ghecko.

My family is Muslim and I've been a Athiest for a very long time now. They don't know and I still think and am sure that if I tell them they'll be extremely mad at me.

That's exactly what I think will happen with my parents. I'm sure my parents will find out sooner or later, but the real question is: what will they do?

I thought I was the only one who thought about that.

Believe me, TmyApp, tons of non-religious people believe in "nothing" after they die, including myself.

[Dragon]

That's exactly what I think will happen with my parents. I'm sure my parents will find out sooner or later, but the real question is: what will they do?

My mom would probably go insane and not talk to me for a few months. <_<

My dad might not care as much but I'm sure he'd be mad for awhile.

[e p]

I thought I was the only one who thought about that.
I believe that's what happens, but I don't think that's anything to be scared of. It's basically like a balance of nothing good and nothing bad happening to you. If I ever do start to worry about that, I just think of how I'm not alone and that makes me feel better. I don't want to believe something because I'm scared of what my fate might be, I'll believe something because that's what I think is true, even if it is scary to think for some people.

I just hope that when my time comes I'll be ready to embrace death.

[~Nooba~]

I see it as you completely cease all forms of thinking, you don't experience anything because its something that's totally unearthly.

[Dragon]

I see it as you completely cease all forms of thinking, you don't experience anything because its something that's totally unearthly.

Well death would pretty much be a sleep state but without the unconscious mind at work. Nothing would work.

[Ghecko]

My mom would probably go insane and not talk to me for a few months. <_<

My dad might not care as much but I'm sure he'd be mad for awhile.

Before I was non-religious, I was Christian. Except I was a very doubtful Christian, always contemplating whether I should be Christian; so basically I was confused about a God or religion for that matter. And my dad had (or has) the same exact problem.

After my mom divorced him, he told me that he prayed for a miracle (he told me this years after they divorced). And guess who he prayed to? Ol' big guns upstairs. And guess what? No answer, he said. So basically my dad is an atheist and he practically finished the job of getting me to be athiest. I think my dad knows that I'm athiest but I never went up and just plain told him, "Dad, I'm an athiest." I just have this feeling he knows, but it's ok because I think he's one too. My mom, step-dad, and sisters are strong Christians. They don't go to church or anything but they sound like they would be the ones to scream "Blasphemy!" if I ever told them that I'm athiest. BTW, my parents are divorced and my dad lives in Las Vegas for those of you who are completely lost.

[Karl]

I am a Humanist. I believe in finding morals and meaning in your life on your own, and in the furtherance of humanity through common ideals and reason.

I generally view religion as superstitious and detrimental, but I do understand that it can have some benefit.

[Dragon]

Who do you live with? Your mom?

-Directed at Gheckco

[Ghecko]

I am a Humanist. I believe in finding morals and meaning in your life on your own, and in the furtherance of humanity through common ideals and reason.

I generally view religion as superstitious and detrimental, but I do understand that it can have some benefit.

Very true. Without religion, the world would either be full of chaos and hate, or it just would have died down a long time ago because of war or something like that.

Who do you live with? Your mom?

-Directed at Ghecko

Yes, unfortunatly. My dad did, however, find someone. She became my step-mom and mother of my half-brother, Ethan. He's pretty cool for a six year old. :)

[Karl]

Very true. Without religion, the world would either be full of chaos and hate, or it just would have died down a long time ago because of war or something like that.
That's a laugh. More often than not, a conflict is started due to religion, not in spite of it.

I meant detrimental in that many people use religion as a way to achieve selfish and hateful things, but it can also be used in a charitable and beneficial way.

Religion itself is harmless, it's how it's used by people that can be right or wrong.

[~Nooba~]

due to religion
I disagree, if there wasn't religion they would find other excuses.

Though i do agree with your overall statement that religion is abused, from its original purpose and sculpted to fit the views of the people who write it.

[Ghecko]

That's a laugh. More often than not, a conflict is started due to religion, not in spite of it.

I meant detrimental in that many people use religion as a way to achieve selfish and hateful things, but it can also be used in a charitable and beneficial way.

Religion itself is harmless, it's how it's used by people that can be right or wrong.

Either way, it helps the sanity of most people in some way.

[Karl]

I disagree, if there wasn't religion they would find other excuses.
Probably. If there weren't guns, we would still find a way to kill each other.

The fact is that there is religion and we do use it against each other. It may not inherently cause issues, but it certainly is the root of many conflicts and issues currently and throughout history.

[Zapurdead]

I'm somewhat of an Agnostic Evolutionary Sort of Christian-Buddhism mix of religion.
Hey, it works.

[YoureANubcake]

Another ####ing religion thread. Why do people care so ####ing much about other peoples beliefs?

*walks away*

[Circuit]

Jewish, non-religious, and on a completely unrelated note - sorta but not really believe in karma
You just described me there.

[DarkReality]

I hope that the afterlife is like a nonstop action movie in which everyone is the protagonist. Awesome? Yes.

Probably. If there weren't guns, we would still find a way to kill each other.

The fact is that there is religion and we do use it against each other. It may not inherently cause issues, but it certainly is the root of many conflicts and issues currently and throughout history.

What'chu say 'bout my momma?! *brandishes spork*

I think it's wrong to give religion the blame for our conflicts. Religions teach peace and love (at least modern, monotheistic religions; Zeus and Co. were a bit more on the "YOU ARE MY PAWNS!" trip). When religion causes conflicts, it's because it's misunderstood, or wrongly interpreted (like the Islamic clergy who brainwash people into believing Allah actually created us so that we can blow ourselves up in his name, for example). You could just as well give cars the fault for accidents when it's mostly people that are simply too stupid to drive properly that cause them. Religion is a tool used to fuel conflicts, not the root. Whether someone wants to kill infidels because they believe in the wrong god or because they aren't aryan, people will always find reasons to kill each other.

[Ghecko]

Another ####ing religion thread. Why do people care so ####ing much about other peoples beliefs?

*walks away*

I did not know there was another religion thread before this one. And it was just a curiousity to see how many people in the forums are and aren't.

[Vagrant]

My problem with religions usually doesn't lie within their belief systems (note: special exceptions for religions such as scientology, which is evil to its core), but rather, with the behavior of its followers.

Most of my problems with my own religion stem from the behavior of other believers -- hypocrisy, lack of genuine relationships, and refusal to accept even a slight alteration in their perception of the world or religion. The reason you rarely find me in church any more is because of this general feeling that I can't trust these people with my innermost thoughts, lest they be sundered. As a theistic evolutionist, I also stand in a relatively unique position is that there is no real church for people such as me, who have reconciled their faith with their science.

[tigerx102]

I'm spiritual, in a way, because science fails to accurately explain the end of the world.

Then again, I lean towards logical principles sometimes, because my religion doesn't explain why hydrogen and oxygen molecules make up 2/3 of our planet.

[Joest]

I'm Agnostic. I think that loudmouth Christians are stupid and that loudmouth Atheists are arrogant morons.

[Ghecko]

I'm spiritual, in a way, because science fails to accurately explain the end of the world.

Then again, I lean towards logical principles sometimes, because my religion doesn't explain why hydrogen and oxygen molecules make up 2/3 of our planet.

Science cannot predict the future.

I'm agnostic. I think that loudmouth Christians are stupid and that loudmouth Atheists are arrogant morons.

What's it mean to be a loudmouth Athiest? Never heard of it or seen it.

[Joest]

What's it mean to be a loudmouth Athiest? Never heard of it or seen it.
Well, there was Matt. Matt is a member here that is a loudmouth Atheist. He went so overboard at one time that many people here that believe in religion changed their user titles and their signatures to 'I want to be saved by Jesus, not Matt', or something along those lines.

[Aquamenti]

I believe in a god and an afterlife, I do not believe in hell and I do not believe any of the religions. They just can't be true. God does not communicate us mortalz.

[Ghecko]

Well, there was Matt. Matt is a member here that is a loudmouth Atheist. He went so overboard at one time that many people here that believe in religion changed their user titles and their signatures to 'I want to be saved by Jesus, not Matt', or something along those lines.

I see. I am not a loudmouth athiest. I let people believe what they want to believe and hopefully they'll let me believe what I want to believe.

[Matt]

Well, there was Matt. Matt is a member here that is a loudmouth Atheist. He went so overboard at one time that many people here that believe in religion changed their user titles and their signatures to 'I want to be saved by Jesus, not Matt', or something along those lines.
I'm not like that anymore, thankfully. Honestly don't know what I was thinking, my dad is such a bad influence when it comes to tolerance.

[Joest]

Yeah, sure you're not.

[shane23]

Religious, Christian.

Church on every Sunday, pray before dinner, etc.

[Karl]

I believe in a god and an afterlife, I do not believe in hell and I do not believe any of the religions. They just can't be true. God does not communicate us mortalz.
You sound like a Deist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist), then.

I have a few friends that describe themselves the same way. Seems to me the easiest way to reconcile science and religious beliefs.

[DarkReality]

Science cannot predict the future.

90% of physics consists of predicting the behaviour of systems. Of course, it's hard to predict the end of the universe if you don't know anything about it.

>_>

[Sperry]

I'm religious, and I'm Christian. I went through a period of doubt and considerable anger at the whole "religious thing", but I've reconciled that with myself and don't feel I need to justify it to y'all. Meow.

[/statistic]

[Aquamenti]

You keep talking about numbers because they don't lie, amirite?

[Aquamenti]

You sound like a Deist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deist), then.
Wrong, I believe that god is in control of our everyday life.

[~Nooba~]

I'm religious, and I'm Christian.
"Thou shall not butt####.", it's right there in the bible Sperry.

[Karl]

Wrong, I believe that god is in control of our everyday life.
As in, no free will, or divine plan?

[Sperry]

"Thou shall not butt####.", it's right there in the bible Sperry. Tell that to my perfectly-legit slaves.

[~Nooba~]

PM me their forum accounts.

[Tanktunker]

"Thou shall not butt####.", it's right there in the bible Sperry.
It says not to do with men what you do with women, and seeing as he doesn't fool around with women, he's in the safe zone.
God apparently hates bisexuals though.

[eedok]

http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2008/05/10-reasons-you-should-never-have-a-religion/
relevant reading

[gufu1992]

As in, no free will, or divine plan?

Divine 5-year plan?

[Sebian]

I am ambivalent to the idea of an after-life; the idea of just infinite blackness when you die certainly scares me into wanting to believe.

If there is a god, I will worship him as fervently as if I had been my entire life. As for now, I cannot believe without proof.

Exactly. *Shudders* Crap. I'm gonna have a black nightmare!

[LizardRob]

It wouldn't be "black".

Explain to me how your non-functioning, half-rotten, half-eaten eyeballs are going to send the colour black to your non-functioning, half-rotten, half-eaten brain.

It would be sort of like sleeping. You don't notice anything while you're sleeping, uninterrupted, do you? You won't have dreams either, due to the whole non-functioning brain thing.

Also, later during your life of being dead, all of your non-bonelike material will have rotted. So, also explain to me how your bones are going to inform your other bones that you can see black, and tell me how you're going to conciously recognise that fact.

[Sebian]

It wouldn't be "black".

Explain to me how your non-functioning, half-rotten, half-eaten eyeballs are going to send the colour black to your non-functioning, half-rotten, half-eaten brain.

It would be sort of like sleeping. You don't notice anything while you're sleeping, uninterrupted, do you? You won't have dreams either, due to the whole non-functioning brain thing.

Also, later during your life of being dead, all of your non-bonelike material will have rotted. So, also explain to me how your bones are going to inform your other bones that you can see black, and tell me how you're going to conciously recognise that fact.

I mean ASLEEP. ASLEEEEEEP. No need to flame with a whole 3 paragraphs just because of a few words.

I'm Agnostic. I think that loudmouth Christians are stupid and that loudmouth Atheists are arrogant morons.

*Bows down to you*

[e p]

I mean ASLEEP. ASLEEEEEEP. No need to flame with a whole 3 paragraphs just because of a few words.

He wasn't flaming. He was explaining. -_-

[Sebian]

He wasn't flaming. He was explaining. -_-

It was ina flaming tone...

[e p]

It was ina flaming tone...

Becuase that's SO EASY TO DETECT on the internet. -_-

I don't think you know what flaming is.

[Sebian]

Becuase that's SO EASY TO DETECT on the internet. -_-

I don't think you know what flaming is.

Insulting, like you were doing right now. Anyways, back to the topic.

[Ghecko]

Insulting, like you were doing right now. Anyways, back to the topic.

As much as I despise evil penguin's music taste, he WAS NOT insulting you. He was simply pointing out that you can't tell tone over a computer.

[e p]

Insulting, like you were doing right now. Anyways, back to the topic.
No, that's not an insult.

An insult would be along the lines of "you're an idiot".

I wasn't insulting you, I was replying to your uninformed post in a heavily sarcastic manner. Sarcasm =/= insulting. Explanation =/= flaming.

Flaming would be going around and calling you an expletive word for no reason. Insulting falls under that category, too. Let's not stray too far off topic.

[Sperry]

No flaming has occured in this thread.

But some mighty pathetic border-trolling has. Please grow up.

[Spartanwarrior3]

You know what? I was making a pretty long post just a bit ago, to explain my beliefs, but than again my lack of knowledge and major ignorance wouldn't blow over to well..

Let's just say, I believe there is a god, but he doesn't serve much of a purpose.

[PlopperZ]

I'm kinda atheist I guess. I just find it hard to believe that there's some guy up in the sky that's gonna throw us into a pit of fire if we don't shower him in compliments.
I really do hope there's an afterlife though, like others said, the idea that I just die scares the #### outta me.

[Ghecko]

I'm kinda atheist I guess. I just find it hard to believe that there's some guy up in the sky that's gonna throw us into a pit of fire if we don't shower him in compliments.
I really do hope there's an afterlife though, like others said, the idea that I just die scares the #### outta me.

How is it scary?

I suppose the worst part about it is that you only have one chance at life. Otherwise there's nothing scary about it, really.

[Aquamenti]

As in, no free will, or divine plan? I believe he gives us situations to handle. So we definitely have free will.

[Defective]

I'm an Atheist. I respect religions, but sometimes I can't stand them.

[Sebian]

How is it scary?

I suppose the worst part about it is that you only have one chance at life. Otherwise there's nothing scary about it, really.

How can it not be scary? Doesn't the idea of infinite nothingness after you are gone just make you go "holy ****"?

[~Nooba~]

How can it not be scary? Doesn't the idea of infinite nothingness after you are gone just make you go "holy ****"?
You can't understand what it's like and you wouldn't have to, its the thought you just cease... you completely stop. You don't think, see, or hear anything including "blackness". You're just dead... you don't see anything and you don't understand anything.

And btw this is an example of flaming: [ocrapeditedout]

[DarkReality]

How can it not be scary? Doesn't the idea of infinite nothingness after you are gone just make you go "holy ****"?

The idea of existing for the rest of eternity scares me even more. Think about it. Forever. How quickly do you get bored? I get bored with things rather quickly. Now imagine living in some abstract paradise, without physical form and without the entertainment you enjoy. Now imagine that for the rest of eternity with absolutely no end to it.

I don't know about you, but that frightens me. I'd like to live my life, have fun, and then not live anymore without constantly being reminded that I'm "stuck" in somewhere for the rest of forever. That just doesn't appeal to me at all. And people can claim all they want that paradise is absolute bliss, blah blah yada yada. Not only does no one know (no, "It's in my holy text" doesn't count as knowing), alone the risk that I have to be conscious forever is enough to make me not want it.

[Ghecko]

The idea of existing for the rest of eternity scares me even more. Think about it. Forever. How quickly do you get bored? I get bored with things rather quickly. Now imagine living in some abstract paradise, without physical form and without the entertainment you enjoy. Now imagine that for the rest of eternity with absolutely no end to it.

I don't know about you, but that frightens me. I'd like to live my life, have fun, and then not live anymore without constantly being reminded that I'm "stuck" in somewhere for the rest of forever. That just doesn't appeal to me at all. And people can claim all they want that paradise is absolute bliss, blah blah yada yada. Not only does no one know (no, "It's in my holy text" doesn't count as knowing), alone the risk that I have to be conscious forever is enough to make me not want it.

Interesting. The idea of living forever would drag on after sometime.

[Guybrush Threepwood]

No.
I could't believe in a higher power even if I wanted to.
I tend to overthink things, and that would lead to questions that can't be answered and they would torture me forever if I continued believing whatever it was I believed in.
Or something like that.

[EDIT]
What I really can't understand is the way some people will read a book (a really boring one at that) and will accept it all as fac6, even though there is no evidence for any of it, other than "The world is pretty" or "Everything is so complex, so someone must be behind it.

I have to go to sleep, now.
If I made an ass of myself, I'll come by tomorrow and fix it. I will repair the damage.

[Aquamenti]

No.
I could't believe in a higher power even if I wanted to.
I tend to overthink things, and that would lead to questions that can't be answered and they would torture me forever if I continued believing whatever it was I believed in.
Or something like that.

[EDIT]
What I really can't understand is the way some people will read a book (a really boring one at that) and will accept it all as fac6, even though there is no evidence for any of it, other than "The world is pretty" or "Everything is so complex, so someone must be behind it.

I have to go to sleep, now.
If I made an ass of myself, I'll come by tomorrow and fix it. I will repair the damage. Quoted for ass.

People read these boring books and reconsider what they believe in.

.

[anti bones]

I'm not religious yet I still visit my church service (which happens every 3rd week in a month) just to keep my church alive, since we live in a rural village with about 3 other families living within a 1/2 mile radius.
But I don't believe in anything to do with religion, all things can be explained within something like science

[DarkReality]

But I don't believe in anything to do with religion, all things can be explained within something like science

Like the reason why life exists, or where all that energy in the universe came from?

>_>

[Ghecko]

Like the reason why life exists, or where all that energy in the universe came from?

>_>

If "God" created life and all the energy in the universe then answer this, my friend:

Who created God?

I don't like how people say that God created himself. How could someone make themselves?

[Tanktunker]

If "God" created life and all the energy in the universe then answer this, my friend:

Who created God?

I don't like how people say that God created himself. How could someone make themselves?
He's God, he's omnipotent, that means he can do anything, even create himself.

[Ghecko]

He's God, he's omnipotent, that means he can do anything, even create himself.

Ok. How do you explain that "Big Bang" theory? I'm not trying to argue or prove a point, I'm just curious to what you think about it.

[Karl]

He's God, he's omnipotent, that means he can do anything, even create himself.
A bit paradoxical, though. To create himself, he must first not exist. Otherwise, why would he need to create himself? And if he does not exist, how can he do anything, including being omnipotent?

[TmyApp.]

I don't like how people say that God created himself. How could someone make themselves?


That would be imposible because he would have no power to create himself in the first place. Right?

[Ghecko]

A bit paradoxical, though. To create himself, he must first not exist. Otherwise, why would he need to create himself? And if he does not exist, how can he do anything, including being omnipotent?

That would be imposible because he would have no power to create himself in the first place. Right?

Those are exactly the words I was thinking but I couldn't put it in words.

[PlopperZ]

The argument is that God has always existed, and thus was not created at all.

[Tanktunker]

A bit paradoxical, though. To create himself, he must first not exist. Otherwise, why would he need to create himself? And if he does not exist, how can he do anything, including being omnipotent?
Well he must obviously have not needed to create himself, he must've always existed.

[Ghecko]

The argument is that God has always existed, and thus was not created at all.

Hm, how believable.

[Karl]

Well he must obviously have not needed to create himself, he must've always existed.
If we allow for the possibility that something may have always existed, isn't it infinitely more likely that the universe and the matter inside it always existed, rather than a omnipotent being?

[Ghecko]

If we allow for the possibility that something may have always existed, isn't it infinitely more likely that the universe and the matter inside it always existed, rather than a omnipotent being?

Jesus Christ (a little subject joke)! ^that guy is smart.

[Karl]

Not really. I just read some on the subject, and besides, we've had this discussion on XGen a billion times before. I usually participate, then reform my opinion on the matter.

I came to XGen a Christian, then became an Atheist, then a Humanist.

[PlopperZ]

If we allow for the possibility that something may have always existed, isn't it infinitely more likely that the universe and the matter inside it always existed, rather than a omnipotent being?
Yes but, according to science, neither are true.

[Ghecko]

Not really. I just read some on the subject, and besides, we've had this discussion on XGen a billion times before. I usually participate, then reform my opinion on the matter.

I came to XGen a Christian, then became an Atheist, then a Humanist.

What exactly is a Humanist?

[Aquamenti]

http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism

That so hard?

[Ghecko]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist

That so hard?

Very. I lost common sense for a second. Thanks for being an #######.

[Tanktunker]

If we allow for the possibility that something may have always existed, isn't it infinitely more likely that the universe and the matter inside it always existed, rather than a omnipotent being?
So if A may have always existed, unrelated B has always existed and A has not, sheerly because A may have always existed?
wat

Yes but, according to science, neither are true.
Science cannot yet explain the absolute roots of the existence, please do not form opinions for science, science does not enjoy being violated like that.

[Joest]

He's God, he's omnipotent, that means he can do anything, even create himself.
Then can God create a stone so heavy that not even he can lift it?

/philosophicaldouche

[Tanktunker]

Then can God create a stone so heavy that not even he can lift it?

/philosophicaldouche
There is no stone that god cannot lift, your question makes no sense.

[Joest]

You didn't answer my question.

Can God create a stone so heavy that he is not capable of lifting it?

[Tanktunker]

You didn't answer my question.

Can God create a stone so heavy that he is not capable of lifting it?
Are photons faligilons?
See, you can't answer that, because just like stones so heavy that god can't lift, faligilons don't exist.
Your question makes no sense, so I cannot answer it.

[Freddy]

Interesting thing I saw on the History Channel one night on the show 'The Universe'.

It's estimated the universe is approximately 13 and half billion years old, that is when the big bang occured being it's creation. Cooincidentally, or perhaps not, with our highest powered telescopes that farthest we can see out is approxitmately 13 and half billion lightyears away. Everything past that is just black. This is true for every direction we look. This is because light from farther away hasn't had enough time to reach us yet, it's only neen around for 13 and half billion years and still needs more time to get to us. It's called our particle horizon.

I don't know. All this universe talk reminded me of this and I thought I'd post it for ####s and giggles. Whether or not this affects the arguement in hand doesn't matter.

[PlopperZ]

Science cannot yet explain the absolute roots of the existence, please do not form opinions for science, science does not enjoy being violated like that.
Alright, theories based on science, such as the one described above me, strongly suggest that the Universe had a beginning, and that there is no God.

[Joest]

No, they suggest that the universe had a beginning. God could have created the big bang. Who are we to say that he didn't? That is blasphemy.

[Tanktunker]

Alright, theories based on science, such as the one described above me, strongly suggest that the Universe had a beginning, and that there is no God.
That is a hypothesis, not a theory, and it's not based on science, it's based upon an irrational belief that if you spout enough bull#### and include the word science somewhere, people will accept that what you are saying is right.

[Ghecko]

Are photons faligilons?
See, you can't answer that, because just like stones so heavy that god can't lift, faligilons don't exist.
Your question makes no sense, so I cannot answer it.

He means, "If God can create anything, including himself, can he create a stone that he cannot lift?" Which is basically a reference to "God can do anything" e.g. lift any stone. Did I make it easier to understand? Or did I completely lose you?

[Joest]

He means, "If God can create anything, including himself, can he create a stone that he cannot lift?" Which is basically a reference to "God can do anything" e.g. lift any stone. Did I make it easier to understand? Or did I completely lose you?
Basically. It's been scrutinized by philosophers for hundreds of years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox

[PlopperZ]

That is a hypothesis, not a theory, and it's not based on science, it's based upon an irrational belief that if you spout enough bull#### and include the word science somewhere, people will accept that what you are saying is right.
I suppose you have a point, hence Scientology.
Though it is based on factual evidence.

[Tanktunker]

He means, "If God can create anything, including himself, can he create a stone that he cannot lift?" Which is basically a reference to "God can do anything" e.g. lift any stone. Did I make it easier to understand? Or did I completely lose you?

A stone that god cannot lift is something that does not exist, therefore the question is nonsensical.
I understand perfectly well what he's asking, but the very concept of the question is flawed.

I suppose you have a point, hence Scientology.
Though it is based on factual evidence.
Empirical evidence I suppose.
Empirical evidence of the creation of the universe, and the source of all matter no doubt.
What you are saying makes no sense, at least cite the factual evidence.

[The Brown Cow]

A stone that god cannot lift is something that does not exist, therefore the question is nonsensical.
I understand perfectly well what he's asking, but the very concept of the question is flawed.
The point of the question is that "There is no stone that God cannot lift" but also "There is nothing that God cannot create". If God cannot create a stone so heavy that he cannot lift it, then he is not capable of creating everything, and is therefore not omnipotent.

It's really just a matter of logic and semantics, and in my opinion, doesn't really prove anything other than that words are tricky.

[DarkReality]

And god probably solved the problem long ago by simply not lifting stones.

I think using our relatively limited perspective and adjectives to disprove something like a god is pretty stupid anyway. How do you logically prove that god exists or doesn't when god can defy all logic? You don't. The paradox only proves that we don't quite grasp the concept of omnipotence.

[Jaquan]

I believe in God and Jesus but I'm not sure if I believe in heaven or hell.

[LizardRob]

God can create a rock which he cannot lift, and then, since he cannot lift it, he is no longer Omnipotent. But, since he hasn't lost any other abilities, he can make himself Omnipotent again, and will then be able to lift the rock again.

[Ghecko]

God can create a rock which he cannot lift, and then, since he cannot lift it, he is no longer Omnipotent. But, since he hasn't lost any other abilities, he can make himself Omnipotent again, and will then be able to lift the rock again.

That makes no sense. If he hasn't lost any other abilities besides lifting a rock, it wouldn't make him omnipotent again. Because he still cannot lift the rock.

[denacioust]

Who cares anyway? I'm sure if I was up in heaven I wouldn't be disappointed if God couldn't lift a damn rock. I'm sure a God wouldn't entertain itself in such trivial matters anyway. Plus applying that sort of logic to understanding or disproving a God is pretty silly. If you want to disprove God do it in a way which takes thought and effort, don't pass on old paradoxes.

[Ghecko]

Yeah, let's get back on topic.

Which was 'who is religious in any way and who is not', and maybe a few stories and such on how you got that way, or if you've always been.

[Karl]

So if A may have always existed, unrelated B has always existed and A has not, sheerly because A may have always existed?
wat
No, that's not what I meant at all.

If we say that it is possible for A to have always existed, then we must also say that it is possible for B to have always existed.

I was merely pointing out that B, in my opinion, is more likely than A, therefore it would be more rational to assume B, not A.

Personally, I think the universe and the matter inside it just existing already is more plausible than an infinitely complex, omnipotent being just existing.

[denacioust]

I think neither of them can really be considered plausible though.

[Karl]

I think neither of them can really be considered plausible though.
Perhaps not. We don't have any evidence to support either conclusion. However, despite both being improbable, I still think one is more probable than the other.

And frankly, I can't think of another solution that is simpler than "maybe it just all existed in the first place".

[Ghecko]

If you're talking about the universe and all the matter inside of it "maybe existing in the first place" then let me point out to you that there is a "Big Bang" theory. Note the italicized emphasis I put on 'theory'.

[Tanktunker]

No, that's not what I meant at all.

If we say that it is possible for A to have always existed, then we must also say that it is possible for B to have always existed.

I was merely pointing out that B, in my opinion, is more likely than A, therefore it would be more rational to assume B, not A.
Proclaiming (by question, no less) that B is infinitely more likely than A, is a bit more definitive than "I am of the opinion that B is more likely than A", but at least less insulting than saying that I'm irrational because I assume A, and not B.

If you're talking about the universe and all the matter inside of it "maybe existing in the first place" then let me point out to you that there is a "Big Bang" theory. Note the italicized emphasis I put on 'theory'.
The big bang is a hypothetical model of the universe.
furthermore, since it's completely untestable (well, at least until someone invents time machines), it's not even a scientific hypothesis.

[Aquamenti]

That makes no sense. If he hasn't lost any other abilities besides lifting a rock, it wouldn't make him omnipotent again. Because he still cannot lift the rock.It's a pain in the butt to argue with an idiot.

ROB SEZ : HE HAS ALL THE OTHER ABILITIES (INCLUDING MAKING HIMSELF OMNIPOTENT AGAIN) EXCEPT LIFTING THE ROCK. HE MAKES HIMSELF OMNIPOTENT AGAIN AND IS ABLE TO LIFT THE ROCK. HOW CAN HE NOT BE ABLE TO LIFT THE ROCK NOW, #####? HOW?

Interesting thing I saw on the History Channel one night on the show 'The Universe'.

It's estimated the universe is approximately 13 and half billion years old, that is when the big bang occured being it's creation. Cooincidentally, or perhaps not, with our highest powered telescopes that farthest we can see out is approxitmately 13 and half billion lightyears away. Everything past that is just black. This is true for every direction we look. This is because light from farther away hasn't had enough time to reach us yet, it's only neen around for 13 and half billion years and still needs more time to get to us. It's called our particle horizon.

I don't know. All this universe talk reminded me of this and I thought I'd post it for ####s and giggles. Whether or not this affects the arguement in hand doesn't matter.Yeah, what do you know, heaven is in space.

[Ghecko]

It's a pain in the butt to argue with an idiot.

ROB SEZ : HE HAS ALL THE OTHER ABILITIES (INCLUDING MAKING HIMSELF OMNIPOTENT AGAIN) EXCEPT LIFTING THE ROCK. HE MAKES HIMSELF OMNIPOTENT AGAIN AND IS ABLE TO LIFT THE ROCK. HOW CAN HE NOT BE ABLE TO LIFT THE ROCK NOW, #####? HOW?

Yeah, what do you know, heaven is in space.

Can I borrow some pot from you?

[Maxpayne]

I know someone who sells it cheaper.

[Ghecko]

I know someone who sells it cheaper.

It was a joke. Let's not turn this thread into spam. Stay on topic.

[,.I.,FireFox,.I.,]

eh im not exactly athiest or religious but i do believe in a after life somewhat and a god i use those things to look up to if anything bad happens instead of oops your life just got a whole lot worse.

[Ghecko]

eh im not exactly athiest or religious but i do believe in a after life somewhat and a god i use those things to look up to if anything bad happens instead of oops your life just got a whole lot worse.

If you do believe in an afterlife somewhat and a god then you ARE religious in some way.

[Karl]

Proclaiming (by question, no less) that B is infinitely more likely than A, is a bit more definitive than "I am of the opinion that B is more likely than A", but at least less insulting than saying that I'm irrational because I assume A, and not B.
Well, sorry for being insulting, but that's my opinion. I do think it's irrational to assume something is true when something else has a higher probability of being true.

It's not exactly scientific, and I'm not intending to assert that. It's merely my opinion on the matter.

And really, that's all anyone can give, isn't it? I don't think it's possible to scientifically test any theory on supernatural beings and other religious beliefs.

[Tanktunker]

Well, sorry for being insulting, but that's my opinion. I do think it's irrational to assume something is true when something else has a higher probability of being true.

But that's the thing, there isn't a higher probability of matter just coming into existence than god just coming into existence, and according to the laws of thermodynamics, matter coming into existence is impossible, so if you do want to go by science, god is the rational option, is it not?

[Ghecko]

Remember guys, these are all just opinions and beliefs. Nothing to argue about, really. :P

[Spectral]

It's funny how in religion polls usually it's like 5 athiests fighting with one Christian, yet in this poll XGen is pretty even between the Athiests and the Thiests.

[Mykester]

Christian, believe in afterlife, go to Church every Sunday and whenever there's an important Mass (Christmas Eve midnight mass, the one on the 26th, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Easter Monday. And sometimes stations of the cross. And ex altar server.

[RocStar]

Same here. I am Christian. Go to church every week and youth group too. I have beliefs I just don't force them on people. I hate people that do that.
This.

I used to hate going to church every week. I've gottem used to it, but I still don't care for going that much.

I also don't give a #### if I'm going to hell or heaven. If I am, I am. I could go either way.

[Karl]

But that's the thing, there isn't a higher probability of matter just coming into existence than god just coming into existence, and according to the laws of thermodynamics, matter coming into existence is impossible, so if you do want to go by science, god is the rational option, is it not?
But we weren't discussing anything coming into existance, we were discussing things always having been in existance.

I think it's possible for all the matter and the universe to just have always existed. Not created, just existed.

And I think it is more probable for matter to have existed rather than a god.

Matter is relatively simple, when compared to an all powerful being, and I tend to adhere to Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor) in this respect.

[The Brown Cow]

It's funny how in religion polls usually it's like 5 athiests fighting with one Christian, yet in this poll XGen is pretty even between the Athiests and the Thiests.
Ah, but that's not the poll. I said I was religious, but I'm not a theist.

[TmyApp.]

But we weren't discussing anything coming into existance, we were discussing things always having been in existance.

I think it's possible for all the matter and the universe to just have always existed. Not created, just existed.

And I think it is more probable for matter to have existed rather than a god.

Matter is relatively simple, when compared to an all powerful being, and I tend to adhere to Occam's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor) in this respect.

That's impossible, matter could not have just been there. Something must have created it.

[l-Zero-l]

I'm christian, but I don't really go to church, though my dad does sometimes.
I do beleive in god and heaven though, and I won't go any further than that.

[Syrito]

That's impossible, matter could not have just been there. Something must have created it.That's impossible, matter could not have just been created. It must have just been there.
</poor debating style>

[zippydaspinhead]

I belive in god but not in a way that really anyone else has, its kinda long and complicated and i don't really feel like going into it now, so i won't. Long story short, Confirmed catholic but haven't gone to church in over two years, and don't belive the same way the rest of my church does

[Onewilliam]

Hell no god is A bunch of BULLCRAP!

i dont beleive in nothing i am with ghecko 100 PERCENT

[Vagrant]

I can't believe we're trying to use science to prove or disprove whether or not God exists.

Science has no opinion on the matter, and all you're doing is butchering facts and knowledge to your own spin. The fact that we can throw scientific facts at each other all day and end up nowhere but a little bit miffed is proof of this. God is a matter of personal belief and faith, no matter what way you look at it. Either you believe, you don't, or you just don't know.

Oh, and I think separate terms need to be made for "anti-theism" and atheism. Anti-theism would be like Richard Dawkins, adamantly against religion. Atheism would simply be not believing because you have no reason to. Agnosticism is simply not knowing.

FYI, a thread on another forum I frequent (http://intjforum.com/showthread.php?t=11062) has a pretty interesting debate about a similar issue if you care for a long read.

It's funny how in religion polls usually it's like 5 athiests fighting with one Christian, yet in this poll XGen is pretty even between the Athiests and the Thiests.

It used to be unbalanced in favor of atheists a long time ago. Times have changed though. :P

[Zertix]

I am not religious. I dont beleave that god is real and he created the earth. There was of course some sort of scientific think like the big bang that created us.

[Dragon]

It used to be unbalanced in favor of atheists a long time ago. Times have changed though. :P

It's the rush of Ballistick players who seem to be the majority of the theists.

[Dan]

It's the rush of Ballistick players who seem to be the majority of the theists.


So an influx of inexperienced posters have barracked the vote. Yay.

[Karl]

I can't believe we're trying to use science to prove or disprove whether or not God exists.
I've been trying to make it clear that nothing I'm discussing is scientific. It's just my opinion, using what I think is logical to assume or not assume.

That's impossible, matter could not have just been there. Something must have created it.This was actually the original argument: You think that something must have created everything, as in a god, and then I would ask you who or what created god, then?

Then you would say that god has always existed, and then I return with the idea that matter has always existed.

It's a bit circular.

Basically, I don't know which is true, whether something must be created to exist, or if it may have always existed. But if everything must be created, we have a paradox, and if things may have always existed, then I believe that it is more likely that matter has always existed, not a god.

[Joest]

But that's the thing, there isn't a higher probability of matter just coming into existence than god just coming into existence, and according to the laws of thermodynamics, matter coming into existence is impossible, so if you do want to go by science, god is the rational option, is it not?
And, according to the theory of the big bang, the matter that the universe is composed of didn't just come into existence one moment; it exploded out of an infinitely dense ball of matter. It didn't just magically appear. You say God could have existed forever, well what if matter existed forever? What if the big bang was just the beginning of our current universe?

Just a thought.

[Ghecko]

This was actually the original argument: You think that something must have created everything, as in a god, and then I would ask you who or what created god, then?

Then you would say that god has always existed, and then I return with the idea that matter has always existed.

It seems to be a vicious circle of arguments and assumptions.

[Mykester]

So, do Atheists believe that when you die, you rot in the ground? That's a sort of pessimistic approach of looking at the afterlife.

[Sperry]

Compared to enternal damnation, which is a wonderfully positive idea.

[Karl]

So, do Atheists believe that when you die, you rot in the ground? That's a sort of pessimistic approach of looking at the afterlife.
Not really. It's the cycle of life; you start as base elements in the earth, become nutrients for plants, then feed some animal, who feeds a human, who trades DNA with another human, who gives birth to you, and then you die, returning to the earth, and decomposing into more base elements.

[Stabby14]

Im catholic and go to church almost every week... It just feels good to believe that SOMETHING happens to you after you die. I mean i find it hard to believe i would just disappear out of existence. Humans are more than just any other animal, could anyone else imagine their concious just disappearing?

[Freddy]

What's to say those other other animals also have a concience?

And I really don't see why that's such a hard thing to believe.

[Ghecko]

Hm, an interesting thing to think about is that if the human race can have a God, why can't animals have theirs? What makes us so special? That is another reason why I find religion a silly thing.

[Sperry]

I believe one point of their being a single omnipotent deity is that said deity is not a dime a dozen. I mean, unless it's just John De Lancee. Then we're good.

[Stabby14]

Hm, an interesting thing to think about is that if the human race can have a God, why can't animals have theirs? What makes us so special? That is another reason why I find religion a silly thing.
I dont know about you but i dont see any animals building civilizations. But if you've seen a doggie town be sure to tell me -_^. Humans arent just any other animal.

[Ghecko]

I dont know about you but i dont see any animals building civilizations. But if you've seen a doggie town be sure to tell me -_^. Humans arent just any other animal.

And why aren't they? Dolphins are said to be smarter than humans; so does that mean they have a god?

[Stabby14]

What's to say those other other animals also have a concience?

And I really don't see why that's such a hard thing to believe.
Well if other animals had a conscience than you wouldnt really have the problem with mothers rejecting their babies. I mean can a fish tell right from wrong? i dont think so. All fish wants is to survive. Humans do more than just surviving

[Stabby14]

And why aren't they? Dolphins are said to be smarter than humans; so does that mean they have a god?Well i would love to hear where you heard that dolphins are smarter than humans; but unless theres some kind of "Atlantis" where a civilization of dolphin exist, I dont think they have as complex emotions as humans...

[Mykester]

And why aren't they? Dolphins are said to be smarter than humans; so does that mean they have a god?

Yes, because dolphins have established civilizations almost everywhere, and have even started their own space program!

*facepencil*

[Freddy]

I dont know about you but i dont see any animals building civilizations. But if you've seen a doggie town be sure to tell me -_^. Humans arent just any other animal.

Ants.

[Ghecko]

Yes, because dolphins have established civilizations almost everywhere, and have even started their own space program!

*facepencil*

Back when "Jesus" was around, they didn't have space programs, yet he claimed there was a god? Like I said, humans supposedly have a god, but animals don't? If you suggest that only humans should have a god than you are belittling animals.

[Stabby14]

Ants.well an ant hill is a pretty sad excuse for a civilization ;) but i guess if you want compare the two than i guess they do have their similarities.

[Stabby14]

Back when "Jesus" was around, they didn't have space programs, yet he claimed there was a god? Like I said, humans supposedly have a god, but animals don't? If you suggest that only humans should have a god than you are belittling animals.
Well then i guess i'm belittling animals. I doubt they would mind :cool:

[Mykester]

Back when "Jesus" was around, they didn't have space programs, yet he claimed there was a god? Like I said, humans supposedly have a god, but animals don't? If you suggest that only humans should have a god than you are belittling animals.

Except animals make decisions based off their instincts. And no, worshipping a god is not an instinct. Instincts are their for survival. An animal's only goals in life are survival and to pass on their genes. Next time, pay more attention in biology.

[Stabby14]

Except animals make decisions based off their instincts. And no, worshipping a god is not an instinct. Instincts are their for survival. An animal's only goals in life are survival and to pass on their genes. Next time, pay more attention in biology.
My point exactly.

[Freddy]

Except animals make decisions based off their instincts. And no, worshipping a god is not an instinct. Instincts are their for survival. An animal's only goals in life are survival and to pass on their genes. Next time, pay more attention in biology.

Dolphins have sex both for survival and because it's just fun to do.

[Mykester]

Dolphins have sex both for survival and because it's just fun to do.

Dolphins and humans being the only ones that do it for pleasure.

[Ghecko]

Still, I don't see why humans are so lucky and special to have a god and others not. Who ever disclosed the fact about even aliens having a god? Lol, just an example.

[Mykester]

Still, I don't see why humans are so lucky and special to have a god and others not. Who ever disclosed the fact about even aliens having a god? Lol, just an example.

They can have the same one as us, they just don't worship because they are not able.

[gufu1992]

well an ant hill is a pretty sad excuse for a civilization ;) but i guess if you want compare the two than i guess they do have their similarities.

Completely protected from weather, easily repaired, large storage of food, standing army, possibility of replacement of any member of the society...

If they were not so small and different, they would have been a civilization long ago.

[DarkReality]

A civilization is more than just a working shelter. I suggest you people read up a bit on what you're talking about.

[The Brown Cow]

Except animals make decisions based off their instincts. And no, worshipping a god is not an instinct. Instincts are their for survival. An animal's only goals in life are survival and to pass on their genes. Next time, pay more attention in biology.
In my opinion we - just like animals - function via an incredibly complex system of cells. Our brains are complicated enough that we give off the impression of free will, but in reality our actions are dicated based on the incredibly complex firing of brain cells. When we make a decision, it's not because we are "choosing" to do so, but rather because our nerves are firing based on a massive number of factors - right down to the exact arrangement of atoms at the time. Free will is a illusion (again, this is my opinion). No invisible "soul" is pulling the levers in the brain.

Why do I bring this up? In my view, animals function exactly the same as humans, but with less complicated brains. Simple creatures like a fly have a tiny collection of brain cells, only capable of responding based on a small number of factors. More complex animals like dogs have a much more complicated brain, capable of taking many factors into account. The human brain is even more complicated. The desire to build cities, the ability to decide between right and wrong (which I would argue some animals, like dogs have) - these are just incredibly complicated systems of brain cells.

And to answer your next question - No, I don't find that depressing. The world may be deterministic, but the illusion is complicated enough for me to experience it as free will.

[Sperry]

Yeah. You need to build cities, and be the first one to discover philosophy, and...

[/bad Sid Meier joke]

[Ghecko]

Wow, 80 voters. Honestly, I thought that this thread wouldn't get that many views.

[ultimatesage]

i am not religius. i belive all things are in a cycle, you cannot avoid it. There is no good or evil, just as there is a balance to all things. Someone who kills someone, another is born. The baby boom; the bubonic plague. Reincarnation is belived to be the eternal circle; apart from athiest, athiests belive there is only blackness, no consiquences after you die. While those who belive in reincarnation belive we all are one. one dies, a 'path' opens and you live anothers life, in a different postion; Thus, the circle. Prove me wrong. Universe; I belive everything is in a circle, even the sun, rotates around something. For example, the earth rotates on a axis, which rotates clock wise, which rotates around the sun, clockwise, while the moon rotates on itself, and arounmd the earth, and which, as said before, rotates around the sun. The universe is sorrounded by astriods, which are randomly distruibuted around the solar system, uninhabitable while hitting other astriods floating through and around taking millions and millions of earth years to collide with others.
Government for example; is useless. there will always be war, conflict, fighting. We are all animals; we are no different than a cheeta trying to survive and feed her young with animals she hunts in kills. Being such, they are the only parts uncorrupted by the human 'scent' we attempted to break free of the circle; to understand the natural world, and to prevent conflict and war; although unsuccessfully.
We desire to build cities, and develop; why, because of the amount of war happening; civil war, french revolution; world wars; they happend naturally and will always happen, in order to develop and grow in order to compensate for those who challange you for your land,wealth and life.
Oh, and about those 'aliens' people bring up. There is NO such thing as an alien; just life forms developing on distant stars or surfaces similar to ours. Other humans have a suddle belief that they are alone on the plane of existance; it is not so. Others think that humans can never establish a proper imaginary steps of an alien; because every 'alien' has a 'face' of eye, mouth, and sensory organs. That is not so. Ever think, for a moment, that they could of lived in similar enviorments like ours, and develop at a possibly faster time-rate than us, and they developed a 'face' although they never came into contact with us?

Except animals make decisions based off their instincts. And no, worshipping a god is not an instinct. Instincts are their for survival. An animal's only goals in life are survival and to pass on their genes. Next time, pay more attention in biology.

that, my friend is a valid point. Animals only purpose in life is to exist. without existance, nothing is valid, or thought is recognized.
We humans have built buildings, as our bird nests, made jobs to feed those, that is a result of 'government'.
Humans have urges. Face it. Its called instinct, which all humans will act opoun instantly when the time arrives for it, for better or worse, is dependant on the situation. This planet is going to be destroyed by conflict and over population; by our own doing. Wars will happen because of chemial signals in males triggers those 'Manly urges' to have conflict, which many scientists belive is a result of the biotic factors which is a poor fight the planet is using to attempt to sem its population; and human arrogance to the truth, combined with lack of predators and scientific research to inable us to rid disease has made our population become enormous, and will cause us to make more war and conflict. There are 'activists' mostly women, who belive fighting is wrong. it is not, it is natural and will happen. If all fighting were to stop, animals would go hungry, economy would fall, the world would be nothing, for a world without conflict is a illusion, it will never happen. There will always be someone who dislikes you, and you will dislike someone inevitably.
Even XGEN supports this point, even you, reading this, may like or dislike me now, and will feel hostile to other people 'insulting' your view, which cannot be exactly the same. Why does XGEN support this? Simple. Stick arena, and numerius other games have violance, which the human brain, usually males, are attracted to.

Still, I don't see why humans are so lucky and special to have a god and others not. Who ever disclosed the fact about even aliens having a god? Lol, just an example.

Because of the complex structure of the brain, the most complicated 'device' currently in the universe. We can understand the 'variables of time' better than most animals, and thus we recognize so much more. For example: You have just been born in the prehistoric age. you see many things unrelated to the womb you have been in for the last 9 months. You notice colors, thunderstorms, lightening, weather, sun,moon, and tides. You want an explanation, your body MUST have one to keep you sane. Thus religion, you 'kid' yourself thinking that if you worship, or please the great things in the skys they will smile opoun you, and the bad times will go away. This is supported by the fact that no matter how big the distance of the tribe, no matter how remote, they will have a god they worship.
For those wo went to war after praying, they never tought 'god' was not on their side.

''Wow, 80 voters. Honestly, I thought that this thread wouldn't get that many views. ''
Its religion.

There im finished. *gives a cookie* there, thats for reading the whole damn thing

[Ghecko]

^That's one hell of a post, I'll give you that.

[ultimatesage]

^That's one hell of a post, I'll give you that.
I can go all day, mate

[Ghecko]

Hold that thought. I'm still reading it.

[aang133]

i'm kind of in the middle, believe in god, not a huge bit on religion i mean i sin, i don't pray all the time, i do pray, and when i do i ask for forgiveness, i sometimes deny it even to myself but believe in god, got a bible in my room for protection. i can't really choose which one.

[Ghecko]

I almost find it surprising that more non-religious people voted than religious.

[Zodiac23]

I'm a Muslim and i'm quite religious.

[Stabby14]

Completely protected from weather, easily repaired, large storage of food, standing army, possibility of replacement of any member of the society...

If they were not so small and different, they would have been a civilization long ago.
Well I doubt any member of the ant "society" make any concious desicions... all of what they do is based on extinct. Do ants even have brains?

[Ghecko]

Another thing that I find interesting is how people look at the appearance of "God" in his actual form. Of course, according to the Old Testament, if you ever laid eyes on "God" you would die.

[Tanktunker]

Another thing that I find interesting is how people look at the appearance of "God" in his actual form. Of course, according to the Old Testament, if you ever laid eyes on "God" you would die.
Where does it say people have looked upon God?
(Also: god has no "actual form")
Well I doubt any member of the ant "society" make any concious desicions... all of what they do is based on extinct. Do ants even have brains?
Yes, they do, and they make conscious decisions.

[Ghecko]

Well, honesty, I've never really looked into the bible deeply (concidering that I'm an athiest and all), but I remember Moses looking upon God before he died? Something like that. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tanktunker]

When Moses was confronted with God's divine light, he hid his face.

[denacioust]

Well I doubt any member of the ant "society" make any concious desicions... all of what they do is based on extinct. Do ants even have brains?

Do ants have brains? Are you seriously asking that question? Ants have a highly organised society and show levels of intelligence which far exceed those which you have just displayed.

And also, 'extinct' is a completely different word from 'instinct'.

[Ghecko]

How did he die then? I'm pretty sure it wasn't old age. I thought that he was granted to look upon God for all his good deeds. Which would be how he died.

[Tanktunker]

He stood on a mountain, look upon the promised land of Israel, and died.
The end.

[Joest]

How did he die then? I'm pretty sure it wasn't old age. I thought that he was granted to look upon God for all his good deeds. Which would be how he died.
He pissed off God by scolding the people or something and him and Aaron couldn't enter the promised land.

[Vagrant]

Well, honesty, I've never really looked into the bible deeply (concidering that I'm an athiest and all), but I remember Moses looking upon God before he died? Something like that. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, he had to have burning coals put to his eyes before he could even look at the hem of God's robe (no the burning coals didn't destroy his eyes, they were symbolic as a form of purification). Only the purest of pure beings could actually look at God (even the seraphim hide their eyes with their wings).

[Ghecko]

Have you ever noticed that in the Old Testament that God was more or less like a god of wrath? And in the New Testament he is more towards a god of love and peace?

[DarkReality]

I'll tell you what I HAVE noticed: you spamming this thread into oblivion with drop-dead obvious one-liner questioncomments :)

Yes, that word exists.

[Dan]

What do you mean, DarkReality?

[~Nooba~]

Have you ever considered maybe it's beyond a human's comprehension how we got here, and that it just may be a mystery that might never be solved?

Have you ever considered that there is a god, just not the one described in the bible?

[Joest]

Have you ever considered maybe it's beyond a human's comprehension how we got here, and that it just may be a mystery that might never be solved?

Have you ever considered that there is a god, just not the one described in the bible?
/thread

[|||Monster|||]

I Believe in Jesus

( I'm a Christian )

[~Nooba~]

I Believe in Jesus

( I'm a Christian )
Thanks for sharing.

[KillaKyrie]

yes i am religious but i dont got to church every week i belive in afterlife and jesus i beleive in everything that has something to do with jesus.

[Ghecko]

I'll tell you what I HAVE noticed: you spamming this thread into oblivion with drop-dead obvious one-liner questioncomments :)

Yes, that word exists.Your point? I'm trying to keep this topic alive.

[gufu1992]

Have you ever considered that there is a god, just not the one described in the bible?

Does ti bleed, so we can kill it?

[~Nooba~]

yes i am religious but i dont got to church every week i belive in afterlife and jesus i beleive in everything that has something to do with jesus.
Do you believe Jesus had a son with Mary Magdalen.

[KillaKyrie]

Do you believe Jesus had a son with Mary Magdalen.no because god spiritually gave a baby to mary there was no sex.

[~Nooba~]

no because god spiritually gave a baby to mary there was no sex.
You are a man that is well informed on what he's talking about.

[KillaKyrie]

You are a man that is well informed on what he's talking about.
actually im a kid and thank you

[denacioust]

no because god spiritually gave a baby to mary there was no sex.

Mary Magdalene was a prostitute in the bible. She was not Mary, the mother of God.
The story goes that Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a child together and since this would place the divinity of Jesus into question her status in the bible was relegated to that of a prostitute.

[Karl]

no because god spiritually gave a baby to mary there was no sex.
I never laughed so much.

[~Nooba~]

I never laughed so much.
I know i even made a thread about it, it's one of the highlights of my time here.

[alsoqox]

No.

I can't bring myself to believe that we were all created by someone who was created by no one.

[Dragon]

<mean>

Have you ever noticed that in the Old Testament that God was more or less like a god of wrath? And in the New Testament he is more towards a god of love and peace?

Peace and love does sell better.

<_<

>_>

Still, I don't see why humans are so lucky and special to have a god and others not. Who ever disclosed the fact about even aliens having a god? Lol, just an example.

If you want to call that lucky and special...


</mean>

[Vagrant]

Have you ever noticed that in the Old Testament that God was more or less like a god of wrath? And in the New Testament he is more towards a god of love and peace?

Keep in mind how he is presented in both.

In the New Testament, God really only takes one direct action -- the blinding of Saul. The rest is all done by Jesus. In the Old Testament, God takes much more direct actions, which generally look fairly wrathful. However, considering the kind of #### the Israelites keep doing (over and over and over), you have to consider how patient and merciful he is. If the Israelites kept disobeying me like they did him, I'd have seriously contemplated smiting their asses. He's surprisingly patient with them.

When you compare these actions, you'll note God is fairly consistent. However, his presentation varies greatly -- in the New Testament, he has Jesus to vouch for him, but in the Old Testament, he is an impersonal force speaking through various conduits. What this ends up as is that God looks more aloof and mean in the Old Testament, but much kinder in the New Testament.

Ironically, if I were to assign an MBTI to God and Jesus, God would be an INTJ (http://typelogic.com/intj.html) and Jesus would be an ENFP (http://typelogic.com/enfp.html). Which makes perfect sense, because the the two types are very good complements. Most of God's actions follow a very rational logic which at times seems very cold.

[JDitto]

I almost find it surprising that more non-religious people voted than religious.lol very different from the sl one, isn't it?

[ir193ak]

im religous. catholic and i go to church every sunday. and believe almost everything a catholic should believe.

[Zapurdead]

I'm an agnostic Christian.
(exists)
It's probably not too rational, and some of it doesn't make sense, but you just have to belieeeeve.
You'll be fine.

[DarkReality]

How do you not believe in god and at the same time believe that Jesus was the son of god and our messiah? o.O

A belief like that can't be healthy.

[ultimatesage]

Keep in mind how he is presented in both.

In the New Testament, God really only takes one direct action -- the blinding of Saul. The rest is all done by Jesus. In the Old Testament, God takes much more direct actions, which generally look fairly wrathful. However, considering the kind of #### the Israelites keep doing (over and over and over), you have to consider how patient and merciful he is. If the Israelites kept disobeying me like they did him, I'd have seriously contemplated smiting their asses. He's surprisingly patient with them.

When you compare these actions, you'll note God is fairly consistent. However, his presentation varies greatly -- in the New Testament, he has Jesus to vouch for him, but in the Old Testament, he is an impersonal force speaking through various conduits. What this ends up as is that God looks more aloof and mean in the Old Testament, but much kinder in the New Testament.

Ironically, if I were to assign an MBTI to God and Jesus, God would be an INTJ (http://typelogic.com/intj.html) and Jesus would be an ENFP (http://typelogic.com/enfp.html). Which makes perfect sense, because the the two types are very good complements. Most of God's actions follow a very rational logic which at times seems very cold.
Id of smited their asses for the hell of it.

[denacioust]

How do you not believe in god and at the same time believe that Jesus was the son of god and our messiah? o.O

A belief like that can't be healthy.

I'm guessing he believes a God exists but that Jesus wasn't it, but still chooses to follow his teachings.

[Zapurdead]

How do you not believe in god and at the same time believe that Jesus was the son of god and our messiah? o.O

A belief like that can't be healthy.
Me?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic_theism
Okay, fine. Here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fideism

[Joest]

Peace and love does sell better.

For Judaism to survive it had to be brutal. If it tooted peace and love to your enemies in 1500 BC, they would have been wiped out. There was relative peace in the region in the supposed time of Jesus because the Roman Empire had a tight hold on the region. In 1500 BC, the whole region was plagued with violence and tribal warfare.

[Ttrain]

Christian, I go to church every week and I follow almost everything.

[Vagrant]

For Judaism to survive it had to be brutal. If it tooted peace and love to your enemies in 1500 BC, they would have been wiped out. There was relative peace in the region in the supposed time of Jesus because the Roman Empire had a tight hold on the region. In 1500 BC, the whole region was plagued with violence and tribal warfare.

Well, namely the Assyrians.

[.::Warped::.]

I'm Christian and use to have a lot more faith than I do now, I believe in a God and everything but lately I've been having doubts and questions that remain unanswered.

I'm pretty sure that there's an afterlife because what would be the point of being here if it was just...

nothing. It's just black, vague, emptiness, with all your memories whiped away. No emotions, no reality. It's just nothing

I love talking about religion and others peoples beliefs so if you dis agree let me hear your side of the story :)

[Guybrush Threepwood]

When you compare these actions, you'll note God is fairly consistent. However, his presentation varies greatly -- in the New Testament, he has Jesus to vouch for him, but in the Old Testament, he is an impersonal force speaking through various conduits. What this ends up as is that God looks more aloof and mean in the Old Testament, but much kinder in the New Testament.

Sooo...Jesus is Gods PR guy?

[Vagrant]

Sooo...Jesus is Gods PR guy?

If you want to think of him that way, sure.

[YoureANubcake]

In the Bible, it says God is three persons, the Father(God...), the Son(Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.

Three persons. Same person.

I know rite!

[e p]

In the Bible, it says God is three persons, the Father(God...), the Son(Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.

Three persons. Same person.

I know rite!
Well Jesus isn't a god as much as he is a holy figure. Jesus is acknowledged as the son of God, not God himself. Nobody would claim him to be a god because of the whole monotheistic thing.

[Liokae]

Well Jesus isn't a god as much as he is a holy figure. Jesus is acknowledged as the son of God, not God himself. Nobody would claim him to be a god because of the whole monotheistic thing.

Not quite. The trinitarian philosophy holds that Jesus isn't *a* God, he's THE god. Father, son, and holy spirit; different aspects of the same being. Still only one God, but presenting itself in multiple aspects.

[The Brown Cow]

Not quite. The trinitarian philosophy holds that Jesus isn't *a* God, he's THE god. Father, son, and holy spirit; different aspects of the same being. Still only one God, but presenting itself in multiple aspects.
Yep. Gods will do that.

You know how Hinduism has like a bajillion gods? It doesn't, actually. There's just one god who has limitless manifestations.

[YoureANubcake]

Yep. Gods will do that.

You know how Hinduism has like a bajillion gods? It doesn't, actually. There's just one god who has limitless manifestations.


Hey, you're the first to have known that. Well, that I'm aware of.

I guess Catholicism is the only religion pushing to be monotheistic. Hinduism, by Catholic standards, is a monotheistic religion.

[DarkReality]

And what about Judaism? Or Islam? Or Christian Protestants?

[YoureANubcake]

And what about Judaism? Or Islam? Or Christian Protestants?


What about them...?

[.::Warped::.]

Hm, Has anyone said they're a Satanist yet?

[Spartan 1337]

What about them...?
They are monothestic.

[.::Warped::.]

I wonder how many religions there are?

Probably like over 50 maybe?

[e p]

Not quite. The trinitarian philosophy holds that Jesus isn't *a* God, he's THE god. Father, son, and holy spirit; different aspects of the same being. Still only one God, but presenting itself in multiple aspects.
To me, I always thought he was just a different holy being. I believe that in the Nicene Creed, in reference to Jesus, it says:
...he ascended into Heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father[/color]Many things seem to say that God and Jesus are different entities.
I wonder how many religions there are?

Probably like over 50 maybe?
WELL over 50, I'm sure. The continent of Africa alone has over 25 religions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

If you count sects, then there's definitely more than 50, upwards of 100+ religions.

[DarkReality]

To me, I always thought he was just a different holy being. I believe that in the Nicene Creed, in reference to Jesus, it says:

Wouldn't it make sense to say that something as supreme as an almighty god consists of everything in the universe anyway? Limiting god as a single "entity" hardly seems justified to me.

[e p]

Wouldn't it make sense to say that something as supreme as an almighty god consists of everything in the universe anyway? Limiting god as a single "entity" hardly seems justified to me.

I was just explaining that Jesus and God aren't really the same "entities" in reference to a Christian prayer.

Besides, I'm not saying God is an entity or anything of the sort. People that believe in God generally picture him to be an entity of some kind.

[Dragon]

WELL over 50, I'm sure. The country of Africa alone has over 25 religions.


I was not informed that Africa was a country.

=/

[e p]

I was not informed that Africa was a country.

=/
My bad. I meant to say continent. I type these responses so quickly I don't always think.

[Aquamenti]

If you do believe in an afterlife somewhat and a god then you ARE religious in some way.
Believing does not make you religious. Religions are Christianity and Buddhism and Judaism and stuff. For example, I don't believe in any of that ####, but I believe in a god and a paradise. I'm not religious, and voted NO for the poll.

[.::Warped::.]

I'm sure there's a religion for believing in the exact same thing aqua just said lol.

Little does he know that he's a Paralidicaliristian.

[DarkReality]

Believing does not make you religious. Religions are Christianity and Buddhism and Judaism and stuff. For example, I don't believe in any of that ####, but I believe in a god and a paradise. I'm not religious, and voted NO for the poll.

Religion is the belief in a god or a higher power, not membership of an existing religion. If you believe in god and a paradise, then you're religious.

[denacioust]

Isn't that agnosticism? Believing that there is a God and a paradise but not believing in any of the specific Gods which people follow.

[Chimpy]

No, agnostics believe that we have no way of knowing whether there is a god or not..

[e p]

Religion is the belief in a god or a higher power, not membership of an existing religion. If you believe in god and a paradise, then you're religious.
I think he was trying to say that a person can't be religious unless they practice a religion devoutly. Of course, that doesn't really make sense. Even if you believe in a god, you are still religious in that aspect.

[Aquamenti]

Religion is the belief in a god or a higher power, not membership of an existing religion. If you believe in god and a paradise, then you're religious.
Then I was wrong. Pardon me.

[Tokshi]

Believing does not make you religious. Religions are Christianity and Buddhism and Judaism and stuff. For example, I don't believe in any of that ####, but I believe in a god and a paradise. I'm not religious, and voted NO for the poll.

are u on crack?

[Rtb]

I am not religious at all, I haven't gone to Church 1 day in my life, I am Athiest.

[Mykester]

are u on crack?


Too expensive for a 13 year old.

[RocketSoldier]

To me, I always thought he was just a different holy being. I believe that in the Nicene Creed, in reference to Jesus, it says:


WELL over 50, I'm sure. The continent of Africa alone has over 25 religions. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

If you count sects, then there's definitely more than 50, upwards of 100+ religions.

Pft. 1000+, dude.

[~Nooba~]

No, agnostics believe that we have no way of knowing whether there is a god or not..
I hate when people put names on things like this.
Religion is the belief in a god or a higher power, not membership of an existing religion. If you believe in god and a paradise, then you're religious.
Though being religious means you follow and practice your religion regularly..

[The Brown Cow]

I hate when people put names on things like this.
It's a lot easier than explaining the whole thing every time someone asks me about my religious beliefs.