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View Full Version : New Russian - Georgian Conflict (May be a War)


Mykester
08-08-2008, 12:09 PM
Article 1 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7499227.stm)
Article 2 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7548715.stm)

The news is constantly being updated. Russia is now targeting Georgian air bases, and some American instructors have been killed as a result. Both sides claim the other violated the peace treaty. Georgia say they are targeting terrorist locations, Russia say they are moving in to South Oseteria (where the conflict started) to protect the citizens (Many have Russian visas). This conflict is constantly being updated. For more info, check here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8911019745/m/6431096876/p/1). The OP is a bit exaggerated, and shows alot of bias due to the fact that he is Russian.


BLISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Georgia's president said Friday that his country is under attack by Russian tanks and warplanes, and he accused Russia of targeting civilians as tensions over the breakaway Georgian region of South Ossetia appeared to boil over into full-blown conflict.
Russia's Channel 1 shows heavy tanks purported to be on their way to South Ossetia.

Russia's Channel 1 shows heavy tanks purported to be on their way to South Ossetia.
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"All day today, they've been bombing Georgia from numerous warplanes and specifically targeting (the) civilian population, and we have scores of wounded and dead among (the) civilian population all around the country," President Mikhail Saakashvili told CNN in an exclusive interview.

"This is the worst nightmare one can encounter," he said.

Hundres of people, possibly thousands, are fleeing South Ossetia to the Russian region of North Ossetia-Alania, the United Nations reported Friday, citing Russian officials. About 400 more are believed to have fled for other parts of Georgia, the United Nations said.

Asked whether Georgia and Russia were now at war, he said, "My country is in self-defense against Russian aggression. Russian troops invaded Georgia." Video Watch the interview with Saakashvili »

About 150 Russian armored vehicles have entered South Ossetia, Saakashvili said, and Georgian forces had shot down two Russian aircraft.Video Watch the Russian tanks moving into the area »

Russia's Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov meanwhile said Moscow had received reports that villages in South Ossetia were being ethnically cleansed, according to Reuters.com.

"We are receiving reports that a police of ethnic cleansing was being conducted in villages in South Ossetia, the number of refugees is climbing, the panic is growing, people are trying to save their lives," he was reported saying.

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, quoted by the Russian news agency Interfax, said Russians had died because of Georgia's operations.

Russia "will not allow the deaths of our compatriots to go unpunished" and "those guilty will receive due punishment," he said. "My duty as Russian president is to safeguard the lives and dignity of Russian citizens, wherever they are. This is what is behind the logic of the steps we are undertaking now."

South Ossetia declared independence from Georgia in the early 1990s, but it was not internationally recognized. Many ethnic Ossetians feel close to Russia and have Russian passports and use its currency. iReport.com: Are you there, share your photos, videos

Russia's Defense Ministry said it sent "reinforcements" to South Ossetia to help the Russian peacekeepers already stationed there.

Earlier Friday, Russian military aircraft dropped two bombs on Georgian territory, a Georgian official said, causing no casualties. Georgian officials also report four Russian aircraft shot down.

The U.S., NATO and European Union have all called for an end to the fighting. U.S. President George Bush and Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin on Friday discussed the conflict in Georgia, the White House confirmed.

In a letter addressed to his "fellow citizens" Friday, Saakashvili said he had mobilized tens of thousands of reserve officers and that the mobilization continued.
Don't Miss

* Georgia's territorial turmoil
* Georgia orders cease fire, offers talks
* Reports: 6 die as Georgia shells South Ossetia
* Shootings heighten Georgia tension

"We must unite," Saakashvili wrote. "All of us, hundreds of thousands of Georgians here and abroad, should come together, unite, and fight to save Georgia. We are a freedom-loving people, and if our nation is united, no aggressor will be able to harm it."

Georgia declared a unilateral three-hour cease fire at 3 p.m. to enable civilians to escape from the conflict zone, which so far was focused inside South Ossetia but included aerial targets inside Georgia, Saakashvili said.

"Clearly they don't really have boundaries in their activities," said Georgian Foreign Minister Eka Tkeshelashvili, in an interview with CNN. She said Russian aircraft had bombed "several villages" in Georgia outside of the South Ossetian territory.

By early evening Friday, Georgian Cabinet minister said the country's forces have taken control of the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali. He spoke to Interfax news agency, which also quoted separtists denying the city was udner Georgian control.

Tkeshelashvili said Georgian authorities are still collecting information on casualties.

Georgia was appealing to the world for diplomatic intervention, she said, stressing that Georgia was not asking for military assistance.

The Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) said it was sending an envoy to the region immediately.

NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer issued a statement Friday saying he was seriously concerned about the recent events in the region, and he called on all sides to end armed clashes and begin direct talks. Video Watch more about NATO's attempts to help Georgia »

Carmen Romero, a NATO spokeswoman speaking to CNN from Brussels, reiterated Scheffer's statement. She said NATO was in regular contact with Georgia's president and was talking to the Russian side.

Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence. Acting U.S. State Department spokesman Gonzo Gallegos said: "We support Georgia's territorial integrity and call for an immediate cease-fire. We urge all parties ... to de-escalate and avoid conflict

An emergency session of the U.N. Security Council on Friday discussed the dramatic escalation of violence. The session ended Friday morning without a statement about the fighting.

Violence has been mounting in the region in recent days, with sporadic clashes between Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists. Georgian troops launched new attacks in South Ossetia late Thursday after a top government official said a unilateral cease-fire offer was met with separatist artillery fire.

Alexander Lomaia, the secretary of Georgia's National Security Council, said Georgian troops were responding proportionately to separatist mortar and artillery attacks on two villages -- attacks he said followed the cease-fire and call for negotiations by Saakashvili.

Russia said a Georgian attack on a military barracks left a number of Russian peacekeepers dead.

"It's all very sad and alarming," Putin said earlier in the day. "And, of course, there will be a response."

"There are lots of volunteers being gathered in the region, and it's very hard to withhold them from taking part. A real war is going on," Putin said, according to his spokesman, Dmitry Peskov.

Russian peacekeepers are in South Ossetia under a 1992 agreement by Russian, Georgian, and South Ossetian authorities to maintain what has been a fragile peace. The mixed peacekeeping force also includes Georgian and South Ossetian troops.

Saakashvili said the Russian invasion of South Ossetia was pre-planned.
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"These troops that are in Georgia now -- they didn't come unexpectedly," the president told CNN. "They had been amassing at the border for the last few months. They claimed they were staging exercises there and as soon as a suitable pretext was found, they moved in."

Georgia, located on the Black Sea coast between Russia and Turkey, has been split by Russian-backed separatist movements in South Ossetia and another region, Abkhazia.



Update:



DZHAVA, Georgia - Russia sent columns of tanks and reportedly bombed Georgian air bases Friday after Georgia launched a major military offensive Friday to retake the breakaway province of South Ossetia, threatening to ignite a broader conflict.
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Hundreds of civilians were reported dead in the worst outbreak of hostilities since the province won defacto independence in a war against Georgia that ended in 1992. Witnesses said the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali was devastated.

"I saw bodies lying on the streets, around ruined buildings, in cars," said Lyudmila Ostayeva, 50, who had fled with her family to Dzhava, a village near the border with Russia. "It's impossible to count them now. There is hardly a single building left undamaged."

The fighting broke out as much of the world's attention was focused on the start of the Olympic Games and many leaders, including Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Bush, were in Beijing.

The timing suggests Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia — a key to his hold on power.

Saakashvili agreed the timing was not coincidental, but accused Russia of being the aggressor. "Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he said in an interview with CNN. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country."

Diplomats called for another emergency session of the United Nations Security Council, its second since early Friday morning seeking to prevent an all-out war.

The United States was sending an envoy to the region Friday to meet with the parties involved. "We support Georgia's territorial integrity," State Department spokesman Gonzalo Gallegos told reporters. "We are working on mediation efforts to secure a cease-fire."

Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain. But Saakashvili told CNN that the troops would be called home Saturday in the face of the South Ossetia fighting.

Georgia, which borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia, was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the breakup of the Soviet Union. Georgia has angered Russia by seeking NATO membership — a bid Moscow regards as part of a Western effort to weaken its influence in the region.

Ten Russian peacekeepers were killed and 30 wounded when their barracks were hit in Georgian shelling, said Russian Ground Forces spokesman Col. Igor Konashenkov. Russia has soldiers in South Ossetia as peacekeeping forces but Georgia alleges they back the separatists.

Georgia's Foreign Ministry accused Russian aircraft of bombing two military air bases inside Georgia, inflicting some casualties and destroying several military aircraft. Rustavi 2 television said four people were killed and five wounded at the Marneuli air base.

Russia's Defense Ministry said it was sending reinforcements for its peacekeepers, and Russian state television and Georgian officials reported a convoy of tanks had crossed the border. The convoy was expected to reach the provincial capital, Tskhinvali, by evening, Channel One television said.

Georgian State Minister for Reintegration Temur Yakobashvili said government troops were now in full control of Tskhinvali, but the RIA-Novosti news agency quoted Konashenkov as saying late Friday that Russian tanks were firing on Georgian positions in the city.

"We are facing Russian aggression," said Georgia's Security Council chief Kakha Lomaya. "They have sent in their troops and weapons and they are bombing our towns."

Putin has warned that the Georgian attack will draw retaliation and the Defense Ministry pledged to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.

Chairing a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, Russian President Dmitry Medvedev also vowed that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

"In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished."

An AP reporter saw tanks and other heavy weapons concentrating on the Russian side of the border with South Ossetia — supporting the reports of an incursion. Some villagers were fleeing into Russia.

"I saw them (the Georgians) shelling my village," said Maria, who gave only her first name. She said she and other villagers spent the night in a field and then fled toward the Russian border as the fighting escalated.

Yakobashvili said Georgian forces had shot down four Russian combat planes over Georgian territory but gave no details. Russia's Defense Ministry denied an earlier Georgia report about one Russian plane downed and had no immediate comment on the latest claim.

Yakobashvili said that one Russian plane had dropped a bomb on the Vaziani military base near the Georgian capital, but no one was hurt.

More than 1,000 U.S. Marines and soldiers were at the base last month to teach combat skills to Georgian troops. Georgia has about 2,000 troops in Iraq, making it the third-largest contributor to coalition forces after the U.S. and Britain.

South Ossetia officials said Georgia attacked with aircraft, armor and heavy artillery. Georgian troops fired missiles at Tskhinvali, an official said, and many buildings were on fire.

Georgia's president said Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.

A senior Russian diplomat in charge of the South Ossetian conflict, Yuri Popov, dismissed the Georgian claims of Russian bombings as misinformation, the RIA-Novosti news agency reported.

Russia's Defense Ministry denounced the Georgian attack as a "dirty adventure." "Blood shed in South Ossetia will weigh on their conscience," the ministry said in a statement posted on its Web site.

Russia's President Dmitry Medvedev later chaired a session of his Security Council in the Kremlin, vowing that Moscow will protect Russian citizens.

"In accordance with the constitution and federal law, I, as president of Russia, am obliged to protect lives and dignity of Russian citizens wherever they are located," Medvedev said, according to Russian news reports. "We won't allow the death of our compatriots go unpunished."

Saakashvili long has pledged to restore Tbilisi's rule over South Ossetia and another breakaway province, Abkhazia. Both regions have run their own affairs without international recognition since splitting from Georgia in the early 1990s and built up ties with Moscow.

Relations between Georgia and Russia worsened notably this year as Georgia pushed to join NATO and Russia dispatched additional peacekeeper forces to Abkhazia.

The Georgian attack came just hours after Saakashvili announced a unilateral cease-fire in a television broadcast late Thursday in which he also urged South Ossetian separatist leaders to enter talks on resolving the conflict.

Georgian officials later blamed South Ossetian separatists for thwarting the cease-fire by shelling Georgian villages in the area.

Defective
08-08-2008, 12:16 PM
I hope it does not turn into a war, America can not afford it. However since an American was killed there may be some outrage, I don't know what will happen.

It seems that this is all based on Russia entering Georgia's territory (as I assume most wars are). Both sides say someone violated the peace treaty and everything. I hope the UN will try to clean up this matter, maybe both sides will have a true cease fire.

Mykester
08-08-2008, 12:33 PM
Georgia is now withdrawing 1000 troops from Afghanistan to put on the border.

SitarFreak
08-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Yeah, I heard about this because my homepage is still MSN.

>.>

But anyways, it looks just like a border conflict, and nothing more. It's not really gonna escalate, I wouldn't think. It'll probably turn out like the Sino-Soviet Border conflict.

Aquamenti
08-08-2008, 12:40 PM
Well, as far as I know, it just turned into a war. Also, the NATO and EU probably won't help Georgia.

Vagrant
08-08-2008, 12:42 PM
We just have to wait to find out. I don't think Bush should get us involved in another conflict that we have no business in.

Fabian920
08-08-2008, 01:31 PM
So basically Saakashvili is a greedy dick trying to get Ossetia not to join Russian Federation, that is what this whole conflict is about. Also this is all American politics, it was planned from the beginning to weaken Russian and Georgian diplomacy.

n3xus
08-08-2008, 02:49 PM
I hope this will turn into a big war and people kill each other off just for the heck of it

Anonymous
08-08-2008, 04:07 PM
my cousin lives in atlanta georgia and i called him and he said there was nothing happening... this is a lie..there is no war in america

¿CRAZYØ¿
08-08-2008, 04:21 PM
The US doesn't really get involved in that region. So I highly doubt the US will do anything.

Fabian920
08-08-2008, 05:25 PM
US already did what it was supposed to do, while Bush was at his summit in Japan Condie didn't waste time, all those American radars that are currently building on border of Russia and trying to close off the bordering countries away from Russia.

denacioust
08-08-2008, 06:56 PM
my cousin lives in atlanta georgia and i called him and he said there was nothing happening... this is a lie..there is no war in america


Well of course he'd say that. He just knows you're on the side of Russia.


Also has anyone seen the size of Russia compared with Georgia? It'd be like an ox fighting a toothpick.

Aquamenti
08-09-2008, 04:33 AM
So basically Saakashvili is a greedy dick trying to get Ossetia not to join Russian Federation, that is what this whole conflict is about. Also this is all American politics, it was planned from the beginning to weaken Russian and Georgian diplomacy.
Oh shut up! It's Russia who doesn't want Georgia to join the EU and is making up stupid reasons to attack Georgia.

Well of course he'd say that. He just knows you're on the side of Russia.


Also has anyone seen the size of Russia compared with Georgia? It'd be like an ox fighting a toothpick.
I have seen Russia fighting Estonia and losing. Or, heard of it, to be more accurate. It happened in 1918.

denacioust
08-09-2008, 07:16 AM
I'd assume that war was the Estonian war of independence, which took place during a Russian civil war, which certainly helped.

n3xus
08-09-2008, 04:10 PM
Georgia is defending its territory from russian aggression...just cuz the majority of people living in south ossetia r russians dont mean the russians can just steal that land, not without a fight of course...

Sperry
08-09-2008, 04:50 PM
Yeah, it's wrong and unjustifiable when they do it...

The United States has no right to condemn here. If Russia wants their own pointless war, let them have it.

¿CRAZYØ¿
08-09-2008, 04:55 PM
Yeah, it's wrong and unjustifiable when they do it...

The United States has no right to condemn here. If Russia wants their own pointless war, let them have it.
So the US should just keep it's mouth shut while Russia bombs one of the US's allies and kills civilians.

Yeah ok.

Dragon
08-09-2008, 04:56 PM
Yeah, it's wrong and unjustifiable when they do it...

The United States has no right to condemn here. If Russia wants their own pointless war, let them have it.

That will still not stop America from doing something about it.

=/ America is the world police, after all.

Fabian920
08-09-2008, 05:51 PM
That will still not stop America from doing something about it.

=/ America is the world police, after all.



I lul'd.


Sadaam is actually alive and still hiding nuclear weapons in Iraq!

Marty
08-10-2008, 01:00 AM
Yeah, it's wrong and unjustifiable when they do it...



The United States has no right to condemn here. If Russia wants their own pointless war, let them have it.
Yeah, screw world peace and all that stuff, that's for panzies. It's their problem.

Who says the US intervention will result in a war?

Doug05257
08-10-2008, 02:24 AM
According to CNN, the president of Georgia or whoever just said that he's at war with Russia. So yeah... looks like it'll get worse before it gets better.

But of course, I don't doubt that Putin could probably butcher that lil' country in less than a day if he so chose.

Dan
08-10-2008, 04:51 AM
The US should get involved. They could make a bet. One game of hockey for Georgia's fate. Miracle: How Georgia got their land back....again.

Mykester
08-10-2008, 11:48 AM
Who says the US intervention will result in a war?

This is Russia we're tallking about. They'll attack for nay reason. For example, the threatened to attacked Poland in '06 because the US wanted to build 100 ICBMs as part of the Missile Shield Defence System.

LizardRob
08-10-2008, 12:00 PM
Remember that the Cold War never really ended; not much came out of it and it's still undecided who the main world superpower should be, so the US going anywhere near Russia will not end well I imagine.

Defective
08-10-2008, 01:27 PM
I heard that Georgia called a cease fire, but Russia kept up the bombings. Is this getting bigger?

Sperry
08-10-2008, 02:46 PM
Yeah, screw world peace and all that stuff, that's for panzies. It's their problem.

Who says the US intervention will result in a war?Last I checked, every time the United States "intervenes", there has been a war.

I've got no problem with "world peace"; but I think it's hugely hypocritical of the United States to even consider criticizing Russia for this. Most of all when they still won't admit their own errors and abominations of international law.

Mykester
08-10-2008, 04:12 PM
Russia is acting like a big hypocrite. They want South Ossetia to be free, but when it comes to Chechnya and Kosovo, they don't.

Defective
08-10-2008, 07:41 PM
I guess Russia want's to be a big power house, their strength is as good or better than America. Russia want's to be in power, I smell commies.

The Garden Gnome
08-10-2008, 10:07 PM
I think this picture (http://latuff2.deviantart.com/art/Russia-Georgia-conflict-2-94380703) illustrates the story very well.

theryman
08-10-2008, 10:18 PM
I think it illustrates it very poorly. For one, the pipeline has not been hurt yet, and even if it had been, it has been closed down for a bit.

For another, remember that in the late 90's South Ossetia declared independence. While never recognized by the international community, they basically ruled themselves for 10 years with occasional fighting with Georgia. During that time, over 70% of the population got Russian passports and became citizens of Russia. Then, Georgia breaks a ceasefire and starts besieging a city, and flattens a few villages.

What do you expect Russia to do? I mean sure, they went overboard when they started bombing Georgian cities, and when they sent the Black Sea Fleet out to Georgia's shore, but they had to do something.

The Garden Gnome
08-10-2008, 10:32 PM
I suppose I'm coming from a bias source.

RocketSoldier
08-10-2008, 11:17 PM
The Russians went down to Georgia, Putin was looking for a land to steal.
He was in a bind 'cos he was way behind: he wasn't willin' to make a deal.
When he came across this young man firin' artillery and firin' it hot.
And Putin jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Saakashvili let me tell you what:
"I bet you didn't know it, but I'm still pissed about Ossetia.
"And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll wage a war with you.
"Now you bomb a pretty good city, boy, but give a Sov his due:
"I bet a region of gold against your soul, 'cos I think I'm better than you."
The boy said: "My name's Mikhail and it might be suicide,
"But I'll take your bet, I'm gonna regret, 'cos you're the best that's ever been."

Mikhail ready up your troops and bomb those ruskies hard
'Cos hells broke loose in Georgia and Putin deals the cards.
And if you win you get this shiny area made of gold.
But if you lose, Putin gets your land.

Putin readied up his tanks and he said: "I'll start this war."
And fire flew from his Kalashnikovs as he started up his jets.
And he flew the jet across the reds and it made an evil hiss.
Then a squad of Soviets joined in and it sounded something like this.
When Putin finished, Mikhail said: "Well you're pretty good ol' ****.
"But if you'll sit down in that chair, right there, and let me show you how its done."

Fire in the city, run reds, run.
Mikhail's in the house of the Georgians.
Cannons in the bread pin, killin peacekeepers.
"Putin, does your dog bite?"
"No, Bush, no."

Putin bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat.
He laid that golden region on the ground at Mikhail's feet.
Mikhail said: "Putin just come on back if you ever want to try again.
"I told you once, you son of a *****, I'm the best that's ever been."

Fire in the city, run reds, run.
Mikhail's in the house of the Georgians.
Cannons in the bread pin, killin peacekeepers.
"Putin, does your dog bite?"
"No, Bush, no."

That's my opinion.

Mykester
08-11-2008, 02:33 PM
Those citizens in SO aren't even Russian. Russia just gave them Russian passports.

n3xus
08-11-2008, 03:44 PM
Georgia will almost certainly be defeated if a ceasefire isnt accepted and the one that was proposed was rejected by the russians

¿CRAZYØ¿
08-11-2008, 05:06 PM
The Russians went down to Georgia, Putin was looking for a land to steal.
He was in a bind 'cos he was way behind: he wasn't willin' to make a deal.
When he came across this young man firin' artillery and firin' it hot.
And Putin jumped upon a hickory stump and said: "Saakashvili let me tell you what:
"I bet you didn't know it, but I'm still pissed about Ossetia.
"And if you'd care to take a dare, I'll wage a war with you.
"Now you bomb a pretty good city, boy, but give a Sov his due:
"I bet a region of gold against your soul, 'cos I think I'm better than you."
The boy said: "My name's Mikhail and it might be suicide,
"But I'll take your bet, I'm gonna regret, 'cos you're the best that's ever been."

Mikhail ready up your troops and bomb those ruskies hard
'Cos hells broke loose in Georgia and Putin deals the cards.
And if you win you get this shiny area made of gold.
But if you lose, Putin gets your land.

Putin readied up his tanks and he said: "I'll start this war."
And fire flew from his Kalashnikovs as he started up his jets.
And he flew the jet across the reds and it made an evil hiss.
Then a squad of Soviets joined in and it sounded something like this.
When Putin finished, Mikhail said: "Well you're pretty good ol' ****.
"But if you'll sit down in that chair, right there, and let me show you how its done."

Fire in the city, run reds, run.
Mikhail's in the house of the Georgians.
Cannons in the bread pin, killin peacekeepers.
"Putin, does your dog bite?"
"No, Bush, no."

Putin bowed his head because he knew that he'd been beat.
He laid that golden region on the ground at Mikhail's feet.
Mikhail said: "Putin just come on back if you ever want to try again.
"I told you once, you son of a *****, I'm the best that's ever been."

Fire in the city, run reds, run.
Mikhail's in the house of the Georgians.
Cannons in the bread pin, killin peacekeepers.
"Putin, does your dog bite?"
"No, Bush, no."

That's my opinion.
I lol'd so hard.

Coheed
08-11-2008, 05:32 PM
Georgia will almost certainly be defeated if a ceasefire isnt accepted and the one that was proposed was rejected by the russians

Oh ####, ya think?

Defective
08-11-2008, 09:14 PM
I think is more fighting comes the USA will be the big #####es we are and intervene. America gets involved a lot, we need to settle down.

Anonymous
08-11-2008, 11:38 PM
Don't worry guys, Georgia doesn't even have cities:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&ie=UTF8&ll=42.228517,42.550049&spn=3.912572,8.481445&z=7

What's the point in doing this?

Solean
08-12-2008, 12:42 AM
I think it would be interesting for china to step in and open up a DMZ..

Defective
08-12-2008, 09:29 AM
Don't worry guys, Georgia doesn't even have cities:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=&ie=UTF8&ll=42.228517,42.550049&spn=3.912572,8.481445&z=7

What's the point in doing this?

For more land, Russia wants more land. More land=more power.

Mykester
08-13-2008, 09:46 AM
Apparently, the conflict is supposed to be over, but the Russians are still moving in. And they before denied attacking Gori (no military Georgian personnel, just civilians). And there is alot of looting going on.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7558593.stm

Aquamenti
08-13-2008, 12:15 PM
I'd assume that war was the Estonian war of independence, which took place during a Russian civil war, which certainly helped. Yeah, it was the Estonian War of Independence, but the Red army had way more soldiers than we did, even the Latvian commies helped them.

Mykester
08-13-2008, 12:30 PM
Bush is sending over ships to Georgia... Now if one of these ships get attacked, this may trigger WW3.

Defective
08-13-2008, 01:59 PM
I don't think they would attack a U.S ship. They know what will happen.

n3xus
08-13-2008, 04:15 PM
bush is only sending supplies and medicine to the georgians

Mykester
08-13-2008, 04:15 PM
Who knows? The US would be able to take Russia in conventional warfare (I'm not American), which is why Russia always threatens with the use of nukes. Why do you think they are against the Missile Defense Shield and are trying so hard for countries not to participate? Because they can only threaten us with nukes, they won't look as strong without them.

EDIT: Yeah I know he's sending over aid, but imagine what would happen if the ships got attacked?

Defective
08-13-2008, 08:37 PM
Everyone knows they would never send out a nuke, it would be the most isiotic and stupid decision ever. Russia can threaten us, but like you said the U.S (I am an American) can take Russia with conventional warfare. Even though we are sending over supplies and aid to Georgia, Russia can see this as helping Georgia (because that's what we are doing). However Russia would again not attack U.S, we have too many allies and we could beat Russia easily.

If they did attack us, us meaning U.S ships, then first people in the U.S would get very angry because Americans died and we do not look kindly at that. Then Bush would get mad and meet with his advisers on what to do, and if they did decide to go to war it would be like Iraq again. People would not want us over there while people do and we would have a big argument. Mean while the U.S allies like Great Britain, Australia and etc. May be pulled into the war and cause WWIII, but since WWII I thought they stopped to have allies that must attack whatever you are attacking due to that it would cause another World War.

So in the end Russia won't attack U.S ships. It would not be a good choice for them.

Dragon
08-13-2008, 10:15 PM
Who knows? The US would be able to take Russia in conventional warfare (I'm not American), which is why Russia always threatens with the use of nukes. Why do you think they are against the Missile Defense Shield and are trying so hard for countries not to participate? Because they can only threaten us with nukes, they won't look as strong without them.

EDIT: Yeah I know he's sending over aid, but imagine what would happen if the ships got attacked?

The ships wouldn't be attacked that would only cause more problems.

Attacking innocent ships trying to help normal people = The USA intervening in the war.

The most that could happen is the ships would be blocked off or not given permission to dock. Hopefully.


Everyone knows they would never send out a nuke, it would be the most isiotic and stupid decision ever. Russia can threaten us, but like you said the U.S (I am an American) can take Russia with conventional warfare. Even though we are sending over supplies and aid to Georgia, Russia can see this as helping Georgia (because that's what we are doing). However Russia would again not attack U.S, we have too many allies and we could beat Russia easily.

If they did attack us, us meaning U.S ships, then first people in the U.S would get very angry because Americans died and we do not look kindly at that. Then Bush would get mad and meet with his advisers on what to do, and if they did decide to go to war it would be like Iraq again. People would not want us over there while people do and we would have a big argument. Mean while the U.S allies like Great Britain, Australia and etc. May be pulled into the war and cause WWIII, but since WWII I thought they stopped to have allies that must attack whatever you are attacking due to that it would cause another World War.

So in the end Russia won't attack U.S ships. It would not be a good choice for them.

I wouldn't say we could beat Russia easily, even with our allies, they have people who would possibly side with them and it would just cause more problems.

And YES of course the idiotic president would definitely do what the people want him to do even though it would lead to another war.

Taktwo
08-13-2008, 10:20 PM
I only hope Bush doesn't land us in another war before he is out of the White House. He already made a big mistake with Iraq, I hope he realizes that.

Dan
08-13-2008, 10:25 PM
Not enough oil over there to start another war.

Dragon
08-13-2008, 10:26 PM
I only hope Bush doesn't land us in another war before he is out of the White House. He already made a big mistake with Iraq, I hope he realizes that.

Oh, he does.

The only reason we went into the war was to please the American people, well the dumbasses. Then when things started turning south and they realized doing so was infact the worst mistake this country could make it is now to far in to stop.

Obama says he would start the withdrawal of troops as soon as he got into office, well ore like six months afterwards.

That is BULL####. We are to far in to just advance backwards and think that the country would heal itself.

Iraq is as good as dead if we leave now, the thing we have to do is help revuidl and stop destroying it.

Bush is smart enough to realize that a war just because we don't agree with it is nothing to get into. Atleast I hope he does.

Taktwo
08-14-2008, 12:04 AM
America - Demolishing poor, lower class countries one at a time.

Sperry
08-14-2008, 07:01 AM
Yeah, because invading a middle-sized, barely-intact nation with no serious military is exactly the same as tromping through a massive superpower.

Russia would be royally pissed if the United States invaded, and would force the invaders to fight for every little inch. Not to mention the obvious opportunity this would give anti-American nations to "fight back". Russia's not dumb enough to attack the US directly, and the US is not nearly stupid enough to risk full-force invasion.

Defective
08-14-2008, 10:05 AM
Oh, he does.

The only reason we went into the war was to please the American people, well the dumbasses. Then when things started turning south and they realized doing so was infact the worst mistake this country could make it is now to far in to stop.

Obama says he would start the withdrawal of troops as soon as he got into office, well ore like six months afterwards.

That is BULL####. We are to far in to just advance backwards and think that the country would heal itself.

Iraq is as good as dead if we leave now, the thing we have to do is help revuidl and stop destroying it.

Bush is smart enough to realize that a war just because we don't agree with it is nothing to get into. Atleast I hope he does.

Yes many American's did realize too late that it was a really stupid idea that we went into Iraq. Now we are too far in too pull out, otherwise Iraq would destroy itself.

Yes I don't see how Obama will pull troops out, it would mess everything up. He is just trying to please people.

Yes we are too far in, the country cannot heal itself after we have been through there. The U.S has caused too much damage, in order to "help" Iraq, for Iraq to heal itself.

We have been trying to rebuild it since we got there, I think that was part of the plan, but it turned into a #### hole and everything got screwed up.

I think Bush is smart enough, but if American people want to go to war the U.S will eventually.

Taktwo
08-14-2008, 10:19 AM
Yeah, because invading a middle-sized, barely-intact nation with no serious military is exactly the same as tromping through a massive superpower.

Russia would be royally pissed if the United States invaded, and would force the invaders to fight for every little inch. Not to mention the obvious opportunity this would give anti-American nations to "fight back". Russia's not dumb enough to attack the US directly, and the US is not nearly stupid enough to risk full-force invasion.

When did Russia become a great nation?

Mykester
08-14-2008, 10:27 AM
Russia would be royally pissed if the United States invaded, and would force the invaders to fight for every little inch. Not to mention the obvious opportunity this would give anti-American nations to "fight back". Russia's not dumb enough to attack the US directly, and the US is not nearly stupid enough to risk full-force invasion.


Russia would just pull the old Scorched Earth thing. Except this time, they would retreat all their forces deep into Russia, nuke the invaders, and push back. Which is why they are so against the Missile Defence Shield.

Defective
08-15-2008, 09:54 AM
No one would nuke, ever. At least not as long as everyone else has nukes. This as I have said before would not happen, no nukes.

If the U.S was stupid enough to invade then Russia would just fight back. They do have a great military (I have learned) and are a huge powerful nation.

Aquamenti
08-15-2008, 10:05 AM
I don't think they would attack a U.S ship. They know what will happen. Who, Russia? Russia doesn't care. They sent all of their civilians to death during WW2, they wouldn't care if WW9 started.

n3xus
08-15-2008, 04:05 PM
No one would nuke, ever. At least not as long as everyone else has nukes. This as I have said before would not happen, no nukes.

If the U.S was stupid enough to invade then Russia would just fight back. They do have a great military (I have learned) and are a huge powerful nation.

indeed, the russians were putting up a facade when they fought georgia with a soviet era arsenal. Russia can field its own stealth fighters and has other guns provided by mister kalashnikov

Vagrant
08-15-2008, 06:22 PM
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/5b/Georgiabush.jpg

If the U.S was stupid enough to invade then Russia would just fight back. They do have a great military (I have learned) and are a huge powerful nation.

They certainly have the tech and manpower. But their economy is in the toilet. They wouldn't be able to stand a sustained war.

Regardless, the US has no necessity to invade or even bother with Russia right now.

n3xus
08-16-2008, 11:33 AM
http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/5/5b/Georgiabush.jpg



They certainly have the tech and manpower. But their economy is in the toilet. They wouldn't be able to stand a sustained war.

Regardless, the US has no necessity to invade or even bother with Russia right now.

their economy is not in the toilet. Russia is floating on petro dollars and moscow has the highest number of billionaires and millionaires anywhere in the world.

swatdude
08-16-2008, 12:34 PM
their economy is not in the toilet. Russia is floating on petro dollars and moscow has the highest number of billionaires and millionaires anywhere in the world.

It is only one city within a country. If Moscow has the most billionaire and millionaire, does that mean Russia has the most overall? Not necessarily. Even so, that by itself doesn't immediately show that Russia has superb economy.

Our economy may be weakened to extent that dollars are becoming of less value overall, but Bill Gates is still one of the richest men in the world (even if he isn't the most). Saying that, just because we may have so many billionaire and millionaire overall in USA doesn't mean that USA immediately have superb economy.

Matt
08-16-2008, 01:26 PM
their economy is not in the toilet. Russia is floating on petro dollars and moscow has the highest number of billionaires and millionaires anywhere in the world.
http://truimagz.com/hosting/matt/Private/US_Economy.png
I beg to differ. I totally didn't shop that. <.< >.>

edit: Unless you mean the Russian economy, then you are correct.

DarkReality
08-16-2008, 02:23 PM
... How could he not mean Russia? He said "their" economy isn't dead and then goes on to describe how rich Russia(ns) are. How do you misunderstand that?

Matt
08-16-2008, 02:32 PM
... How could he not mean Russia? He said "their" economy isn't dead and then goes on to describe how rich Russia(ns) are. How do you misunderstand that?
Well by then I'd made the image and didn't want to remake it. <.<