Comparable to the Nazi's?

[c00lryguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_massacre

Stumble'd upon this while crusin' wikipedia. Thought I should share.

[war thread]

[Taktwo]

Thats horrible how that man just murdered children and women like cattle. Why must America have idiots in charge?! Can't we choose a decent leader for once?! I just read William Calley's wiki page and Nixon had his sentence reduced to only 20 years! Oh, but no, he only served 3 and a half god#### years on house arrest!

[Anonymous]

AMERICANS KILLING NON AMERICANS!?

Preposterous!!

[Taktwo]

Not funny Fleur. That was a horrible event in America's history.

[c00lryguy]

Well, it was kinda funny.

Either way, I think it's funny how we all associate every other country with actions like these yet bury our own.

[Vagrant]

Indeed. America's not the only country that commits atrocities. It's just the one that's been doing them more recently.

Frankly, I just feel the Iraq War is a whole 'nother Vietnam, only with better cover up.

[AssaultRifle]

I find it hillarious how there is more news on American soldiers 'tourturing' Iraqi combatants by playing loud music 24/7 than there is showing the stories about American soldiers captured, tortured, and killed. The same thing was going on during Vietnam.

[Solean]

I find it hillarious how there is more news on American soldiers 'tourturing' Iraqi combatants by playing loud music 24/7 than there is showing the stories about American soldiers captured, tortured, and killed. The same thing was going on during Vietnam.

Playing loud music is new and creative. Capturing, torturing, and killing are illegal things, but all part of war as we know it.

This is nothing comparable to the holocaust, I don't know what you're talking about.

[Vagrant]

Playing loud music is new and creative. Capturing, torturing, and killing are illegal things, but all part of war as we know it.

This is nothing comparable to the holocaust, I don't know what you're talking about.

It may not be directly comparable to the Holocaust in terms of scale and organization, but any massacre of a specific group, including women and children, counts as genocide to me.

[c00lryguy]

I said to the Nazi's, not the Holocaust.

[Solean]

I said to the Nazi's, not the Holocaust.

I assumed you meant the holocaust, since you were refering directly to the event. Sorry, I guess I really don't know what you're talking about.

[Tanktunker]

I'm amazed at the fact that there aren't any Darfur/Somalia threads.

[DarkReality]

I find it hillarious how there is more news on American soldiers 'tourturing' Iraqi combatants by playing loud music 24/7 than there is showing the stories about American soldiers captured, tortured, and killed. The same thing was going on during Vietnam.

Because there's a minimal difference between taking a soldier as a prisoner of war and innocent people arrested and detained without any rights for an indefinite amount of time. You're in their country, don't forget that. Or did you expect them to just give up without doing the same #### you do?

It's just a clear sign that you are no better than any other country. You are not the world police, you are not sent by god, your soldiers are not all righteous and fighting for justice. #### like this sadly happens, but it's certainly no reason to condemn America for it. After all, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.

[Freddy]

Pay attention to your World History class!
This shouldn't be news to anyone (unless they're like 13 or 14 or something and didn't take it yet).

And this isn't the only time the US deos this crazy type of crap either.

[DarkReality]

Or you live in another country and don't learn about every massacre? We didn't even have a World History class. Only Third Reich and post-war Germany up until the fall of the Berlin wall.

Which was interesting enough :-p

[Doug05257]

It may not be directly comparable to the Holocaust in terms of scale and organization, but any massacre of a specific group, including women and children, counts as genocide to me.

Genocide is the attempt to eradicate an entire type of people.


Killing a group of people really isn't a form of genocide, unless you have plans or intent to try and wipe out the rest of 'em all over the world.


It's just a clear sign that you are no better than any other country. You are not the world police, you are not sent by god, your soldiers are not all righteous and fighting for justice. #### like this sadly happens, but it's certainly no reason to condemn America for it. After all, no one is responsible for someone else's actions.

Exactly. I simply can't stand people that hate 'Americans' as a people. I did not choose to invade anywhere. If I did, I would've chosen to join the military. Hate my government all you want, but I personally had nothin' to do with anything they've done. You got it right yet again, Reality.


Or you live in another country and don't learn about every massacre? We didn't even have a World History class. Only Third Reich and post-war Germany up until the fall of the Berlin wall.

:(

I wish I'd have been there for those classes. I absolutely love the study of World War 2 and the Third Reich.

[DarkReality]

well they were in german, so probably a bit difficult to understand...

>_>
<_<

But seeing how it was our own national history, there was a lot more on the entire politics, both Hitlers path to becoming dictator and the soviet's iron fist over the east, which was far more interesting than the watered down WW2 history I was forcefed in the states.

[c00lryguy]

My original point, Solean, was; When you think of Nazis/Germans you think of evil crap happening like this, but not when you think America.


Come to think of it, when I think America, I think "dolla dolla bill, ya'll"

[Taktwo]

Well, for most people on our forums, its or native country. It can be hard for some of those Americans to realize that were not the "perfect country" that people think we are. We are a great country, but no where near perfection. Nazis still suck though.

[Tanktunker]

Nobody with a brain thinks America is perfect.
Especially not foreigners, believe me.

[Taktwo]

Hmm, them maybe my school is just full of students with no brains...

[AeroZ]

Nothing is truly comparable to the Nazi regime or the Holocaust. Perhaps on a very low level yes, but not enough to truly compare it side-by-side. Sure it was a horrible massacre, and I am not diminishing the fact that U.S army did such a terrible thing. Also this was not a organized army sent to kill out an entire race, rather an idiotic order, received and executed by our obedient soldiers. Sick? Yes. Comparable? Hardly.

[Anonymous]

Nothing is truly comparable to the Nazi regime or the Holocaust.
Genesis chapter 6.

[AeroZ]

Genesis chapter 6.
Try within the last 5000 years. =/

[DarkReality]

My original point, Solean, was; When you think of Nazis/Germans you think of evil crap happening like this, but not when you think America.


Come to think of it, when I think America, I think "dolla dolla bill, ya'll"

I think "#### the world, we've got cowboy hats, rifles, and bigass pickup trucks. We own you."

You think of evil things when you think of germans? o.O Wow... pretty skewed. We're harmless compared to fanatic muslim families who stone their daughters because they were raped.

[c00lryguy]

Yeh, Americans think Nazis and they equate Nazis to all Germans. Most the time they do, anyways.

[DarkReality]

http://vgcats.com/comics/images/060206.jpg

:-)

It has Hitler. Hitler was a Nazi. The word Nazi was in the title. Hence it is relevant!

What's actually creepy is that this is the first thing I stumbled over after viewing this topic >_>

[Tanktunker]

Try within the last 5000 years. =/
Darfur conflict
Armenian Genocide
Rwandan Genocide
:/
All within the last century.

[DarkReality]

Nothing is truly comparable to the Nazi regime or the Holocaust. Perhaps on a very low level yes, but not enough to truly compare it side-by-side. Sure it was a horrible massacre, and I am not diminishing the fact that U.S army did such a terrible thing. Also this was not a organized army sent to kill out an entire race, rather an idiotic order, received and executed by our obedient soldiers. Sick? Yes. Comparable? Hardly.

Haha. Blol.

Try the Inquisitions during the late middle ages. Try the massacres of native american tribes treated like the animals your founding fathers thought they were. At least Hitler recognized Jews as human beings, if inferior ones. The Jewish Holocaust was not the end of the world and most certainly not the worst thing to ever exist. Especially considering that concentration camps were also present in the USA, where US citizens (!) of japanese decent were placed.

And while they did not exist to systematically kill people, plenty of those have existed throughout the world. And genocide itself isn't really something groundbreaking new, really. Nor was Hitler the first to actively hunt down jews. Try the reaction people had towards jews when the Plague broke out in the middle ages.

Hitler was essentially a miserable copycat. It's interesting that Hitler is evil and the Holocaust was the worst thing to happen, but the millions of people killed by Stalin in equally brutal manners aren't mentioned?

[Tanktunker]

Try the Inquisitions during the late middle ages.
Or don't, the spanish inquisiton was made out to be something it's not, there was much less bloodshed and torture than made out to be, and it doesn't even compare to the holocaust.
And moreso, the inquisition wasn't against a race, but rather against a religion.
Jews could easily escape torture and bloodshed by converting, they didn't ave to attend church, just claim that there were now catholic.

[DarkReality]

You think anyone cared? It wasn't about religion, it was about their heritage. If they looked jewish, only a lot of money or a very detailed genealogical document going back 3 or 4 generations would be enough.

My girlfriend's last name is very typical for a german jewish name, which is why her great-grandfather had immense difficulties with the Nazis. He actually did have to produce that document in order to not be brought into a concentration camp.

And where did you read that this inquisition was made out to be something it's not? For the sake of curiousity?

[SitarFreak]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_massacre

That was worse. The Japanese don't even print it in their history books.

[Tanktunker]

And where did you read that this inquisition was made out to be something it's not? For the sake of curiousity?
History teacher.

[c00lryguy]

You people know there were more than one Holocaust, right?
The African Holocaust, Armenian (my peoples) Holocaust, Asian Holocaust, Black Holocaust, and Ukrainian Holocaust.

Anyone up for some genocide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history)?

Guitarfreak: Good link, dude.

[Tanktunker]

Holocaust =/= genocide.

[c00lryguy]

Explain how killing thousands of humans doesn't count as genocide.

Go on, Im ready for this one.

[DarkReality]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_%28disambiguation%29

name Holocaust doesn't mean that it was actually THE Holocaust. There was only one Holocaust, hence it's capitalisation. The others are genocides. Both are terrible.

You even looked at the wikipedia article, based on the order of your list. How did you miss "Post-1970s coinings of the type "name Holocaust" in the sense of "genocide" or "mass murder" imply a comparison to the Shoah and are often used polemically."? :-p

And he never said killing thousands of people doesn't count as genocide, he said it's not a holocaust.

It's incredible that we're quabbling over the meaning of a ####ing word and talking about the pointless murder of thousands and millions of people :-/

[AeroZ]

Explain how killing thousands of humans doesn't count as genocide.

Go on, Im ready for this one.
He's not saying that killing thousands of people isn't genocide, rather that holocaust isn't some ordinary genocide.

[Tanktunker]

Explain how killing thousands of humans doesn't count as genocide.

Go on, Im ready for this one.
How many Armenians were put in furnaces exactly?
A holocaust refers to either The Holocaust, or to a genocide where lots and lots of people get burned.
Both have happened once, and the latter happened in the former, so what you call the Armenian holocaust is actually the Armenian genocide, and that goes for all the others you listed, although I'm unaware of that any of those happened save for the Armenian one.

[c00lryguy]

It does'nt matter HOW they were killed, it's just the simple fact they they WERE killed. It doesn't matter WHAT you call it, it DID happen and it WAS gruesome.


But my view still stands, the Jewish Holocaust wasn't the only Holocaust.

[Anonymous]

Capital H holocaust usually refers to the Jewish holocaust.

[Tanktunker]

But my view still stands, the Jewish Holocaust wasn't the only Holocaust.
Holocaust = people were killed by burning.
Genocide = people of a certain ethnic group were killed.
Getcher werds straight.

[Liokae]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/holocaust

Fire is not a necessity.

[c00lryguy]

4. any mass slaughter or reckless destruction of life

That's the definition I think of when I hear "holocaust"

[Tanktunker]

[Middle English, burnt offering, from Old French holocauste, from Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos, burnt whole : holo-, holo- + kaustos, burnt (from kaiein, to burn).]

:/
All the origins point to one thing.

Anyway, Holocaust doesn't mean Genocide, it's not the same thing.

[c00lryguy]

It IS the same thing!
How was any holocaust NOT genocide?! HITLER WAS TRYING TO EXTERMINATE JEWS OFF THE MAP! I think that constitutes as
gen·o·cide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

[SitarFreak]

Nobody cares, both are equally bad.

[c00lryguy]

Just because you don't care, doesn't mean we don't. Or else we wouldn't be arguing about it.

[SitarFreak]

No, I mean why argue over a subject that has the same outcome? That is pretty idiotic. Now Taiwanese disputes, THAT'S a problem.

[Freddy]

Who cares about the outcome? We all know what already happened.
What's important is the simalirites and differences of the Jewish Holcaust with genocide.
And that's only important cause we say it is. So it's pretty bloody important.

[SitarFreak]

That's a pretty self centered observation. Who really cares about the differences. Both kill many people, how much further can we go.

[c00lryguy]

You're starting an argument we're ALREADY arguing about! Cut it out!

[SitarFreak]

Sorry! Sorry... Umm... okay, topic change! Umm... Do you think Taiwan should be a seperate country? I think it should belong to the PRC.

Ontopic: What exactly is the difference between the Holocaust and a genocide, anyways?

[h00pla]

A holocaust is simply a huge devestation

A genocide is a planned elimination of a creed sect or race

[DarkReality]

It IS the same thing!
How was any holocaust NOT genocide?! HITLER WAS TRYING TO EXTERMINATE JEWS OFF THE MAP! I think that constitutes as
gen·o·cide - the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group.

Apes are hairy mammals. But not all hairy mammals are apes. A holocaust is a genocide, a genocide is not always a holocaust. Holocaust comes from greek and means mass burning. In religions, it was a burnt offering to the gods. It has to do with fire, no matter how you turn it.

Just because a dictionary claims something is true doesn't mean it is. Word origins and historical context mean much more.

And it doesn't ####ing matter anyway.

[Alex the Researcher]

Thats political thread look like a standard for web forums... two or three days ago I've seen the same thread in LiveJournal. But not about that incident - it were at russian LJ sector and about Chechen wars (the same incident with 'unknown' troops and massacre in one village). Of course I've also heard about Kosovo and Serbia (terrible war - especially for relative 'civilized' Europe instead of near medieval Chechen republic or Afganistan) and some local wars at ex-USSR (at least three separatist states at Caucasus + one at Moldova).

My opinion about it - terrible, of course, but not so terrible as all world wars with chemical, biological and nuclear weapon. Massive air strikes, for example, was conducted by all states - with great loss of civilian population. This world is changing and global wars with mass destruction now just too expensive (not only in $ - modern industrial infrastructure and cities is too vulnerable and costly).

PS: I've heard (its not a proved information, but it makes a sense) that this factor plus 'nuclear winter' theory makes third world war impossible. Superpowers can't strike each other, and any small state can't strike any superpower - so I don't worry about threats from North Korea or Iran.
PPS: Sorry, but I have not read all topic - just first and two last pages.

[Tanktunker]

PS: I've heard (its not a proved information, but it makes a sense) that this factor plus 'nuclear winter' theory makes third world war impossible. Superpowers can't strike each other, and any small state can't strike any superpower - so I don't worry about threats from North Korea or Iran.

That's not how it's going to go down.

Iran will nuke ISrael, because the leaders are too chicken#### scared for their political careers to do anything about it, the US will get involved, Iran will nuke the US and it'll quickly fall apart from there.